[DF] Placing areas of different mana in Dungeon Fantasy

[Taneli]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

The more I think about this, the more it feels like Suspend Mana and Drain Mana are absolutely essential to wizardly magic working as intended. One interesting thing about these spells is that Drain Mana in particular is vastly cheaper than most other methods if you want lasting protection for an area (the one partial exception I see is Pentagram, and because its cost scales with area rather than radius, it's really only cheaper if you're protecting a single hex). In a world where wizardly magic is the only type, I expect small areas that have been subject to Drain Mana would be extremely common and serve a variety of purposes: jail cells, "safe rooms", or simply places where people can talk with a guarantee they won't be scried upon. Dungeon Fantasy complicates things because Drain Mana will only protect you against one of several types of hostile magic, but the spell might at least be popular among clerics who want to maximize their "home field advantage" in their temples, or at least certain sections thereof.

Those spells are pretty ugly to cast, though. A critical failure with Suspend Mana loses you one level of Magery for 2d days, and has a change to lose it forever, while a critical failure with the Drain Mana just loses you that level of Magery forever.

Also, I'm not entirely sure if the Suspend Mana and Drain Mana on the DF Cleric's list are supposed to affect mana or sanctity, probably mana. If they have a critical failure with those spells, they're going to lose a level of PI, that's for sure.

But yeah, in a place like Yrth, there's bound to be plenty of no mana places around as the result of mages of the old draining places for their own use (and maybe using a chunk of their power in the process).

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Taneli

I left wild mana out as it's complicated.

Not complicated but insane in how much you can do with area spells.

Originally Posted by Taneli

Those spells are pretty ugly to cast, though. A critical failure with Suspend Mana loses you one level of Magery for 2d days, and has a change to lose it forever, while a critical failure with the Drain Mana just loses you that level of Magery forever.

Also, I'm not entirely sure if the Suspend Mana and Drain Mana on the DF Cleric's list are supposed to affect mana or sanctity, probably mana. If they have a critical failure with those spells, they're going to lose a level of PI, that's for sure.

But yeah, in a place like Yrth, there's bound to be plenty of no mana places around as the result of mages of the old draining places for their own use (and maybe using a chunk of their power in the process).

Or it could be that the Yrth wizards created patches of Mana Vortex minerals. Mana Vortex is an interesting (and canonical) quirk as it turns any area it is in into a no mana area.

"Most Mana Vortices are 1 to 3 hexes in radius, but there are rumors of Vortices with radii of up to 300 hexes." (Classic: Magic Items 1 p 64)

[Michael Thayne]

Originally Posted by Taneli

Those spells are pretty ugly to cast, though. A critical failure with Suspend Mana loses you one level of Magery for 2d days, and has a change to lose it forever, while a critical failure with the Drain Mana just loses you that level of Magery forever.

Also, I'm not entirely sure if the Suspend Mana and Drain Mana on the DF Cleric's list are supposed to affect mana or sanctity, probably mana. If they have a critical failure with those spells, they're going to lose a level of PI, that's for sure.

But yeah, in a place like Yrth, there's bound to be plenty of no mana places around as the result of mages of the old draining places for their own use (and maybe using a chunk of their power in the process).

I would assume Suspend Mana and Drain Mana effect mana even when cast by a cleric. It seems weird for clerics to directly be lowering sanctity, since high sanctity for Good generally means low sanctity for Evil and vice versa.

But good point about the risk of losing a level of Magery/PI. So probably won't be used willy-nilly, but I think in the setting I've been working on I will, at the very least, tend to assume that areas with Very High sanctity have also had their mana drained to protect them against wizardly interference.

[David Johnston2]

I would assume that mana altering spells are projects for NPCs, like say, enchanting. Which basically they are. So if the master of the dungeon wants a conveniently place no mana zone around their treasure vault or above that crevasse to keep people from levitating to the other side to use the extending bridge controls, they can have it.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Michael Thayne

I would assume Suspend Mana and Drain Mana effect mana even when cast by a cleric. It seems weird for clerics to directly be lowering sanctity, since high sanctity for Good generally means low sanctity for Evil and vice versa.

Unless you hold that sanctity is a special form of Aspected Mana (as on Roma Arcana) that makes no sense. The default is mana and sanctity don't interact.

In the Roma Arcana mana actually represents the availability of spirits to perform spells for the mage rather than "energy".

Since in Roma Arcana the major numen ("deities") assign duties to the spirits where belief in them is strong Sanctity increases at the cost of mana. (Fantasy p 201)

This puts Isis, who followers use Magery, in an interesting situation. Normally her temples would increase Sanctity at the cost of mana but that would make put her followers at a major disadvantage compared to other numen (the Western equivalent of kami). Exactly how she squares this circle is left up to the GM.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by maximara

Unless you hold that sanctity is a special form of Aspected Mana (as on Roma Arcana) that makes no sense. The default is mana and sanctity don't interact..

The default is that mana and sanctity are are different. That doesn't mean that a sanctity fueled "spell" can't affect mana. There are after all, such things as gods of magic.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

The default is that mana and sanctity are are different. That doesn't mean that a sanctity fueled "spell" can't affect mana. There are after all, such things as gods of magic.

Reread the post I was replying to:

"I would assume Suspend Mana and Drain Mana effect mana even when cast by a cleric. It seems weird for clerics to directly be lowering sanctity, since high sanctity for Good generally means low sanctity for Evil and vice versa."

Why would changing mana have any effect on sanctity unless you are following Roma Archana guidelines?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by maximara

Reread the post I was replying to:

"I would assume Suspend Mana and Drain Mana effect mana even when cast by a cleric. It seems weird for clerics to directly be lowering sanctity, since high sanctity for Good generally means low sanctity for Evil and vice versa."

Why would changing mana have any effect on sanctity unless you are following Roma Archana guidelines?

Yeah, that's a statement that the cleric versions of the spell still work on mana rather than being changed to acting to lower sanctity.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Yeah, that's a statement that the cleric versions of the spell still work on mana rather than being changed to acting to lower sanctity.

I might add that in Classic a cleric could use Consecrate and Desecrate to directly and quickly change sanctity levels (GURPS Religion p 103)

It would kind of weird for a deity of magic (like Isis) to allow their clerics to cast Suspend Mana or Drain Mana as it is effectively cuts into their worship which if they are under 'get everything' rules hurts them.

Lina inverse said it best; it is effecting 'give me some of your power so I can hurt you'. If you were wondering that was because some idiot of a mage tried to cast Dragon Slave on Ruby Eye Shabranigdo. Problem is Dragon Slave is powered by Ruby Eye Shabranigdo. Needless to say the mage didn't last long.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by maximara

I might add that in Classic a cleric could use Consecrate and Desecrate to directly and quickly change sanctity levels (GURPS Religion p 103)

It would kind of weird for a deity of magic (like Isis) to allow their clerics to cast Suspend Mana or Drain Mana as it is effectively cuts into their worship which if they are under 'get everything' rules hurts them.
.

She who gives can also take away. Propitiatory worship is a thing.