12-01-2022, 10:04 AM | #291 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
Let me put my "thumb" on the scales for (2) as well.
The Terrans might not have thumb drives and USB port devices in the mid-90s but I think there may have been dedicated digital recorders and you'll jsut chuck the whole thing through the Gate. Some cultures will just have to teach Calligraphy (or at least an optional specialized Handwriting Skill) to their Gate scouts. Shorthand as known in the 20th century might be too idiosyncratic.
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Fred Brackin |
12-01-2022, 11:39 AM | #292 |
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
Communications requiring transfer of a physical object would potentially be rather problematic. If we allow for radiowaves and similar to pass through, that opens the possibility of weaker devices that are communication-only; if we don't, FTL communication is only possible if you have something capable of transferring physical objects - perhaps only rather small ones, but that's markedly different from being limited to communication. You'd probably also need to outfit the SG teams in something akin to spacesuits, as you can't send a remote-controlled robot through to check the location before sending in people (although maybe the latter would still be possible - a simple robot that basically just rolls forward a set number of yards, collects basic environmental samples, then rolls back a set number of yards - putting it back on the other side of the gate - might be reliable enough to serve a similar role to the MALP). If it's an option to have a data cable bridging the gap (so the MALP-expy would essentially be connected to SGC via an umbilical of sorts), that ceases to be an issue... but then the effect of needing to send something physical through is sufficiently reduced it would probably be better not to bother.
Probably a question worthy of a later vote, as I can see narrative benefits of either approach (I favor sticking with the way it worked in the show, where they can send radio signals and similar through the gate directly, even with the Iris* closed - as you can undoubtedly tell from my response, but I wouldn't be entirely opposed to the other way). *On that note, if only physical objects can be sent through, something like the Iris probably isn't practical, as there's no way to verify it's actually SG1 or whoever coming through the gate. Maybe you could leave a small portion of it open, such that a data-storage device with the appropriate code(s) could be sent through, although you really need a dialogue to make certain OpFor doesn't just grab the verification device and toss it through before mounting an assault... and OpFor may be able to toss the equivalent of a grenade through whatever opening you leave.
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12-01-2022, 02:10 PM | #293 |
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
The need for MALFs and other scout robots to o through first can be avoided through Gate proper design. Consider the following exchange.....
Terran scientist: "Why do all the Gate addresses we can get to open end in this particular symbol?" Friendly Alien wise in the way of Gates: "That's because that's the symbol for Earth-like environments." TS: "We tried one address that ended in that symbol but the final chevron wouldn't lock." FA: "That's because that Gate isn't in a safely Earth-like environment anymore." That's probably what the Ancients in SG-1 should have done but many TV plots seem to demand that someone did something gosh-awful stupid when designing something. Similarly you get.... TS: "We get a number of valid-looking addresses where even the first chevron won't lock." FA: "That means a trained user on the far side has entered a Do Not Open command. I'll show you how to do it." TS: "Is there a way around that?" FA: "If you know the chevron code the user has set, yes. If you don't there might be a way to get around it in special cases. " So if your properly designed Gate is working the way it was originally suposed to you don't need a MALF or an Iris.
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Fred Brackin |
12-01-2022, 02:37 PM | #294 | |
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
Quote:
It does require the designers to have a certain degree of healthy paranoia to design their gates to have such security features to start with, which isn't necessarily going to be the case (I always assumed the Ancients had some sort of unified semi-utopia; the forcefield on the Atlantis gate would have been a latter addition when they encountered the Wraiths... but in our setting, it may well be that similar threats have always existed, so our Ancient-analogues would have indeed had the requisite paranoia). I also feel that, if the last chevron is set to stop the gate from opening if the environment on the other side doesn't match what is expected, and there's risk of environmental drift occurring, there may be a "void" chevron that overrides this - set it as the last one, and it'll open the portal regardless of conditions on the other side.
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12-01-2022, 07:57 PM | #295 |
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
The Void chevron is for use to and from Spacegates.
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Fred Brackin |
12-01-2022, 10:42 PM | #296 | |
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
Quote:
EDIT: Of course, spirits contained within matter would be able to pass through regardless, as otherwise anyone traveling would be soulless on the other end.
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Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life. "The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates." -- Tacitus Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 12/17/2022: Apocrypha: Bridges out of Time, Part I has been posted. Last edited by Prince Charon; 12-01-2022 at 10:46 PM. |
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12-02-2022, 05:57 AM | #297 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
Quote:
A tangent, but I once considered a setting with Star Trek style teleportation (which basically kills you then remakes you at the destination) where it turned out using such teleportation rendered one soulless. Teleportation was going to be in use by the Evil Empire, particularly amongst their soldiers (in addition to the strategic benefits of teleportation, being soulless renders one much more susceptible to brainwashing, at least until the proper security protocols are "installed" into your shell, as well as eliminating any sense of empathy), while other groups would be reliant on slower means of transportation (I never decided if teleportation was the only FTL option - or if it even was FTL, it could easily be lightspeed-only). The inspiration was a couple of short stories I read some years ago - one where a braindance/sensie was accidentally made of someone dying of a stroke and it turned out anyone who experienced it wound up having their soul stripped away, and one where missionaries were noted as having "cryo-cough" due to them making extensive use of cold sleep to travel to distant settlements instead of teleportation (they believed teleportation was a form of suicide, and the person on the other end was, in fact, a new person with a new soul).
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12-03-2022, 11:43 PM | #298 |
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
Faster Than Light Question III
Clarifying the results of Question II, how is communication through the 'gates and wormholes accomplished? 1. Only physical matter, and spirits/magic contained within objects and lifeforms, can cross the wormholes (Whether generated by the Stargates or others), so communication requires a messenger or a storage medium. The Iris almost certainly doesn't exist (which is disappointing to me), nor does the MALP. 2. As in the show, pretty much anything can pass through the 'gate, apart from sound and visible light for some reason. The MALP and Iris are viable, but if the Iris exists, it does not protect against spirits and some types of magic... at least at first. 3. Unlike the show, sound and visible light can pass through the Stargate in both directions. 4. Magic and spirits can pass through the 'gates, but radio waves cannot. 5. There are ways to modulate the wormholes themselves in ways that allow communication through them. 6. Something else (please specify). Please remember to include the number(s) of your preferred option(s) when you vote. ******* Answer: 1 gets five votes, and 5 gets four votes, two of which are aspects of 6.
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Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life. "The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates." -- Tacitus Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 12/17/2022: Apocrypha: Bridges out of Time, Part I has been posted. Last edited by Prince Charon; 12-11-2022 at 04:22 AM. |
12-04-2022, 04:54 AM | #299 |
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
6. As 5 (There are ways to modulate the wormholes themselves in ways that allow communication through them, but its an advanced process.), and with the understanding that radio still works. Spirits and magic can still pass through the gate without special preparation, so can also be used by cultures more prone to those "technologies".
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12-04-2022, 10:00 AM | #300 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread
6) A combined 1 - only physical objects can get through, meaning spirits need a vessel to travel through one - and 5 - the gates themselves can be modulated for communication - but with the caveat that the communication allowed by 5 is rather low-bandwidth. Basically, SGC figures out how to do the communication fairly early (or is informed of how to do it by a friendly native of one of the early worlds they visit); initially they can send information at a rate roughly equivalent to a sentence per minute, but once they've optimized their methods maybe something like a paragraph per minute. Note this implies an initial rate of around a byte per second, an optimized rate of around 5 bytes per second. That should allow for the GDO and Iris systems (although the SG team will need to wait a bit for the transmission to be accepted), as well as brief emergency messages. The MALP will need a degree of automation to function - it could probably be designed to go through, collect the relevant data, then send a fairly simple message back regarding its findings (if it needs to send pictures or video, equip it with a compressed-air "cannon" that can shoot a ruggedized, small harddrive back through the gate... or have it reverse back through). Of course, once SGC gets a handle on magic, they may be able to design a MALP golem that is more reliable.
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