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Old 09-10-2016, 12:00 AM   #11
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Incidentally, a lot of the effect of strength modification is probably to bring up the average by cutting off the bottom of the curve, rather than affecting the top that much, so just adding all the mods is unlikely to be valid.
Like how vaccinations, nutrition, education, etc. have drastically improved average intelligence, but hasn't really made inventive geniuses more common.

It's probably like determining how much weight a chain can take before breaking. Nearly everyone has a few weak links, and it's easier to fix them improving averages than making the material it's made of inherently stronger.
I hope my metaphor isn't too odd.
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

It seems that this thread got way out of hand. I should have mentioned a few limitations.

1. No superhuman starting stats. So ST 14 is the highest I'd go for a "standard, very muscular human"

2. No eugenics or mass-cloning. I'm talking about a born-human who's on the high end of athletics, such as a professional athlete--THEN adding things on. The trick is that I'm talking about "aftermarket" muscle, i.e. grafts, enhancement, bone stimulation, super steroids, Juice, etc.

SUMMARY: ST 14 athletic human, post-birth TL10 enhancements only.

I think that should clear things up. :)
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by weby View Post
...
Then we start adding weird stuff:
Chinese elemental powers has Stone Frame for +10 lifting ST
That is lift ST of 44, or 3098 lb 2 handed lift.
...
This sounds fun but what book is this from?
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by Tallor View Post
This sounds fun but what book is this from?
This one which I recommend if you're interested in martial arts fantasy.
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by McAllister View Post
...
As for whether muscle enhancements stack with muscle grafts, isn't that a question for the GM? Or are you the GM? I can't quite tell from the question.
NOTE: I am the GM! I just like having solid guidelines.

1. Grafts stack on base ST, Reinforcement stacks on top of Grafts. I suppose you could be grafted with pre-Reinforced muscles to avoid the weird math of having Reinforced muscles AND ordinary, grafted muscles. o-O

2. Bone Stimulation gives the standard +1 HP and allows +2 to total muscle enhancement--so a net +2 instead of a +2 for each.

I figured that the ending result would be a ST 14 athlete grafted into 17, then Reinforced into ST 17 with Lift/Strike 21. The whole reason I asked is because I was wondering if there was some kind of limit of 20 on non-giant human, and/or if there were "space adventure" TL11+ wacky ideas y'all had that would turn someone superhumanly strong... but not genre-breakingly elephant-strong. :P
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

14 is as strong as two men; 18 stronger than 3 men; 20 as strong as 4 men.
How many men do you as the GM think is the limit beyond which things get silly?
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
14 is as strong as two men; 18 stronger than 3 men; 20 as strong as 4 men.
How many men do you as the GM think is the limit beyond which things get silly?
My strength is the strength of ten, because my heart is pure. :-)
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Old 09-11-2016, 01:35 AM   #18
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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My strength is the strength of ten, because my heart is pure. :-)
My strength is a thousandfold greater, for I wield the manrikigusari!
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Old 09-11-2016, 08:48 AM   #19
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
14 is as strong as two men; 18 stronger than 3 men; 20 as strong as 4 men.
How many men do you as the GM think is the limit beyond which things get silly?
Meh, this isn't as impressive as you make it sound.

In GURPS, a person of average strength can deadlift (lift with 2 hands in 4 seconds) 160 lbs, and a person with ST 20 can deadlift 640 Lbs (with the help of neither Lifting Skill nor Extra Effort). Since Basic Lifts are added in GURPS when people work together, that is indeed "the Strength of 4 men!"

However, it's not at all an unrealistic range of ability in the real world.

I can probably deadlift over just over 200 lbs (I never lift at my maximum weight, so I can't be sure) and Hafthor Bjornson can lift 994 lbs.* Since I'm a man with above average ST (I work out 3 times a week not counting martial arts classes) it's very reasonable to say that Hafthor has the strength of 4 men. If there were 4 of me trying to lift the bar in that video, we'd fail. It's not even much of a stretch to say he has the ST of 5 men.

It's worth noting, that while one of the strongest people alive, Hafthor is not the record holder at the deadlift.





*That comes out to a basic lift of 124 lbs and a lifting ST of 24. But let's assume he's getting a 50% bonus to his Basic Lift from VERY good rolls on Lifting and Extra Effort--that's a Basic Lift of 93 Lbs which is STILL a lifting ST of 21! I'm very pleased at how this works out in GURPS's favor. Hafthor is a multiple "World's Strongest Man" winner, who probably has ST 20 and Special Exercises (Lifting ST 1) all bought at a discount thanks to Giganticism.
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Old 09-11-2016, 08:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: Highest strength of TL10 human?

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Originally Posted by Tallor View Post
1. No superhuman starting stats. So ST 14 is the highest I'd go for a "standard, very muscular human"
Where do you get a limit of 14? Even the definition of ST in Characters notes that normal humans can have a ST over 20, which number is about the limit suggested by the lifting formulae and weightlifting world records. ST 14 as a human max would cut Olympic records about in half.

Certainly, you're free to impose limits and make up your own rules for attributes in your games. But then there would seem to be little point in asking about references for effects from rules outside your game, as those are all part of the RAW that was discarded, and so those rules would all need to be reworked to fit the new system. Similarly, there isn't much point to asking about thoughts and impressions of limits or improvement possible from fictional tech from other people that don't share the same philosophy of sharply limiting stats and who aren't familiar or experienced with the rescaled attributes in the house rules. "+2" means vastly different things in the two systems -- is that a small bonus, or does it take you halfway from being average to being an Olympic record holder?
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