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Old 05-30-2021, 05:09 AM   #1
psydraco
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Default Hirelings Traits

When the GM build a NPC to be a hireling, the 62 or 125 points assume that the npc will have more points from disvantages?

If it is, a fair limit is -12 for the 62 template and -25 for the 125 one? Following the same porpotion 1/4 and 1/2 from the PC's.

Or it is best to forget about disvantages and just spend those 62 or 125 points in the suitable caracteristics and call it a day?

Thanks again!
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Old 05-30-2021, 06:44 AM   #2
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default Re: Hirelings Traits

They should get disadvantages, for characterisation, as well as character points. Don't sweat about the exact numbers: 20 points of disadvantages for 62-point hirelings, or 40 points for 125-pointers won't upset things.
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Old 06-01-2021, 04:31 AM   #3
ArchonShiva
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Hirelings Traits

Remember that there is no mechanism for adding disadvantages (for points) in play, so if you want hirelings to be just as flawed as the murder-hobos who hire them (or to be delivers in the making), they could have access to just as much bad stuff as full-fledged delvers.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:50 AM   #4
martinl
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default Re: Hirelings Traits

This is totally a GM call, but keep in mind the PCs usually take disads that don't affect their primary delver role - that is to say, an PC warrior type will probably not take disads that seriously reduce their fighting ability. This is just good tactics.

For NPCs, GMs can do what they want, but I generally put NPC ally disads into three buckets:
  1. Characterization disads just make the NPC more fun.
  2. Primary disads make the NPC less good at their job.
  3. Collateral disads inconvenience the PCs.

Primary and collateral disads count for full no matter how many there are, but generally and NPC should only have one or the PCs will ditch them. (Or if the NPC is irreplaceable just go nuts and prepare to eat the player frustration.)

Characterization disads over the disad limit are fine but are usually noted as quirks [-1] even if I intend to play the NPC more flamboyantly.
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Old 06-01-2021, 04:35 PM   #5
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Re: Hirelings Traits

I often imagine that successful NPCs would have bought off (or increased self-control numbers for) any disadvantages that would substantially interfere with their primary mode of business. (I think this is true for PCs, too, though usually, campaigns start at a point in time when we don't yet know whether or not they can overcome their particular disadvantages.)
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Old 06-01-2021, 04:53 PM   #6
martinl
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default Re: Hirelings Traits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
I often imagine that successful NPCs would have bought off (or increased self-control numbers for) any disadvantages that would substantially interfere with their primary mode of business...
Probably, but crazy effed-up NPCs are a thousand times more fun than competent well-prepared professionals most of the time.
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Old 06-02-2021, 08:28 AM   #7
Polkageist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Hirelings Traits

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchonShiva View Post
Remember that there is no mechanism for adding disadvantages (for points) in play, so if you want hirelings to be just as flawed as the murder-hobos who hire them (or to be delivers in the making), they could have access to just as much bad stuff as full-fledged delvers.
Pish posh! Disadvantages are just as easy (or hard) to apply mid-game as advantages. Just plan ahead a little bit. An acquired disad, obviously, wouldn't award points but for a growing henchman it's a good backfilling justification for a big point jump representing significant growth, training, or experience. -5 Overconfidence because now they think they're a badass from serious training, or -10 Bully because they're messed up now and lashing out because they saw/fought some serious nastiness in the dungeon. Drop them in all at once, or trickle in as 'bonus XP' by (for example) doling out a gained disad point per regular point of XP until caught up.

Browsed through the book real quick, looks like Henchmen have a range of disadvantage values. A cultist has -20, Torchbearer is -30, Laborer is -15. Probably because they're more for player support than actual players.
I think if players are building their proto-heroes and starting at the 62/125 level then normalizing the disad value might be a good idea. It'll need some adjustment elsewhere to make sure your math is lined up. Actually, the DF15 book talks a lot about the customization in the end chapter.

Of course I think that Delvers to Grow is going to answer a LOT of these questions. I'm seriously considering a reboot of my DF game to take advantage of the new material.
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Old 06-02-2021, 08:57 AM   #8
DouglasCole
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Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Hirelings Traits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polkageist View Post
Of course I think that Delvers to Grow is going to answer a LOT of these questions. I'm seriously considering a reboot of my DF game to take advantage of the new material.
I was considering a Henchmen, Hirelings, and Townsfolk expansion specifically to address these things, because while DELVERS must be multidimensional in some respects (even with a strong niche-defining spike), hirelings do not have to be, and in fact, if they are too broad, will not be hired.

Lukewarm reception of the project means this is not an instant-go, but it's on my list of projects under consideration.
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Old 06-14-2021, 03:20 AM   #9
psydraco
 
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Default Re: Hirelings Traits

Thanks for all the answers and ideas!
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