Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2009, 05:07 PM   #1
Green-Neck
 
Green-Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fryers Forest Australia
Default Reality Check: guns (lmg) and Gunner (mg)

It seems odd to me that there is no default between Guns (LMG) and Gunner (MG).

Here is an example to elucidate:

It's 1970 in Vietnam; and our hero - Corporal Magnus Magnuson [DX 10] - is protecting a famous table tennis player [DX 14] during a demonstration match.
They are attacked by 20 NVA soldiers, all with AK47's.
Magnus fires his M60 at the attackers (and with skill 18 in Guns (LMG) he hits quite a few). Magnus gets the table tennis player into a bunker where he conveniently finds an M60 compatible tripod set up facing the right way, with good sandbag cover. Happy, he sets up his M60 on the tripod. His effective skill [Guns (LMG) 18, +1 for ROF] of 19 now drops to 7, as the skill required changes from Guns [LMG] to Gunner [MG] ; with no default to the guns skill it results in DX-4, HT134.
He does however get +1 to hit for the tripod, bringing his effective skill to 8.
The table tennis player, who has never seen a real gun before - shoves Magnus aside and fires the M60 [with a default of DX-4 = 10, +1 braced, +1 ROF =12 to hit].

Now the sportsman is a better shot than our commando hero?!
Perhaps Magnus deserves a default of Guns -4?
__________________
A fine blend of hillbilly and permaculturist.

Last edited by Green-Neck; 12-13-2009 at 05:09 PM. Reason: page ref added
Green-Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 05:58 PM   #2
Tema69
 
Tema69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Denmark
Default Re: Reality Check: guns (lmg) and Gunner (mg)

Agreed.
In this example, he should simply take a -2 unfamiliarity if he isn't familiar with tripods.
Tema69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 06:40 PM   #3
ed_209a
 
ed_209a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Reality Check: guns (lmg) and Gunner (mg)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tema69 View Post
Agreed.
In this example, he should simply take a -2 unfamiliarity if he isn't familiar with tripods.
Particularly with this example, since even though it's on a tripod, Cpl Magnuson still puts the stock to his shoulder, aims, and pulls the trigger.

How about if it were a M2 machine gun, that is fired with both hands on the rear of the weapon?
__________________
“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
- Robert E Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"
ed_209a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 06:55 PM   #4
Green-Neck
 
Green-Neck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fryers Forest Australia
Default Re: Reality Check: guns (lmg) and Gunner (mg)

thanks for your replies.
So Magnus' skill should be reduced to 6 [unfamiliar -2] and perhaps our table tennis player to 8 [unfamiliar -4]?
Even if the sportman penalty should be worse [-6 to-10?] Magnus' skill has still dropped from 19 to 6.
Thats effectivly a -12 penalty for connecting his gun to a tripod.
!!!
__________________
A fine blend of hillbilly and permaculturist.
Green-Neck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 07:18 PM   #5
ed_209a
 
ed_209a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Reality Check: guns (lmg) and Gunner (mg)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Green-Neck View Post
thanks for your replies.
So Magnus' skill should be reduced to 6 [unfamiliar -2] and perhaps our table tennis player to 8 [unfamiliar -4]?
If he doesn't use the traversing and elevation device on the tripod, I would just allow a -2 fam penalty on his Guns LMG skill. It doesn't seem that different than using a bipod.
__________________
“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
- Robert E Howard, "The Tower of the Elephant"
ed_209a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2009, 08:45 PM   #6
Ubiquitous
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Default Re: Reality Check: guns (lmg) and Gunner (mg)

I hate to take issue with GURPS' wording, since the people who make it peruse here, but I'll risk it since I think that's where the issue's coming from;

Guns (LMG): Any machine-gun fired from the hip or a bi-pod.

Gunner (Machine Gun) : Any kind of heavy projectile weapon capable of firing bursts.

If Magnus is hauling his LMG around, then you'd use LMG skill. Period. No penalties even, since it's just braced on the tripod; I doubt not needing to hold it himself is going to put too much strain on his ability to use it. Gunner skill seems to be for guns too heavy to hold (except that rig in HT, the hand-held GAU). In that case, using an HMG with gunner skill, I don't see a reason for Magnus to be better (or maybe even as good) as the ping-pong guy, since both are inexperienced with it and the ping-pong guy is simply better biologically. After all, game-wise, Magnus would have the soldier skill, and could roll against that for using the HMG. I don't think the mechanic has to be changed.
Ubiquitous is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gunner, guns

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.