Tantric Talent

[AlexanderHowl]

Actually, I think that Tantric Talent should include Autohypnosis, Breathe Control, Erotic Art, Meditation, Philosophy, and Theology (meaning that it would be 5 CP/level). Tantra really has nothing to do with combat or seduction, though I imagine that the exercises could lend themselves to Acrobatics, Judi, and Wrestling.

[Kamickalo]

Having some familiarity with the Vajrayana tradition from an outsider's perspective, perhaps I can clear up some things.

IRL, Tantra covers a wide range of practices and doctrines, of which those pertaining to sexuality constitute only a very small part. In the strictest sense, a Tantric talent base would rely most heavily on Meditation, Breath Control, and Philosophy/Theology (take your pick), as these form the fundamentals that more esoteric practices build on. This may also include Religious Ritual as a skill. Regardless, Tantra encompasses all the basics of Buddhism and meditation, and only really seems to cover sexual practices for those with immense experience.

If we look at the Six Yogas of Naropa, some of the "coolest" tantric practices, there is a strong case for including both Body Control and Dreaming as skills. The Yogas of Naropa are what allow monks to perform feats like vastly increasing their body temperature (called Tummo), and use lucid dreaming to further their meditation practice (called Milam). Dreaming skill could further be connected (maybe through techniques) to the other yogas which connect monks to their guru (called Phowa - might be telepathy in GURPS) and purifying/projecting one's consciousness at the moment of death (GURPS effects, if any, are debatable).

For something that looks reasonably like a real-life practitioner of tantra, a talent might look like: Meditation, Breath Control, Theology, Religious Ritual, Body Control, Dreaming, Erotic Art, Mental Strength.

Given the alleged history of sexual abuse in Vajrayana schools, along with the general lack of socialization of monks, I'd argue against including Sex Appeal in a "realistic" talent. Chogyam Trungpa was an outlier who possessed the skill. But we're here to have fun :D

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Actually, I think that Tantric Talent should include Autohypnosis, Breathe Control, Erotic Art, Meditation, Philosophy, and Theology (meaning that it would be 5 CP/level). Tantra really has nothing to do with combat or seduction, though I imagine that the exercises could lend themselves to Acrobatics, Judi, and Wrestling.

Originally Posted by Kamickalo

Given the alleged history of sexual abuse in Vajrayana schools, along with the general lack of socialization of monks, I'd argue against including Sex Appeal in a "realistic" talent. Chogyam Trungpa was an outlier who possessed the skill. But we're here to have fun :D

I imagined that the bonus to Sex Appeal was due to an ability to project sexual energy outward at other people when appropriate/desired.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Kamickalo

Having some familiarity with the Vajrayana tradition from an outsider's perspective, perhaps I can clear up some things.

Great, thanks for your help!

Originally Posted by Kamickalo

IRL, Tantra covers a wide range of practices and doctrines, of which those pertaining to sexuality constitute only a very small part. In the strictest sense, a Tantric talent base would rely most heavily on Meditation, Breath Control, and Philosophy/Theology (take your pick), as these form the fundamentals that more esoteric practices build on. This may also include Religious Ritual as a skill. Regardless, Tantra encompasses all the basics of Buddhism and meditation, and only really seems to cover sexual practices for those with immense experience.

Okay, Rasul (the PC), is a chi-user of immense experience and power. And I'm looking for a way to represent his supernatural control of his body and mystical monk-like power over sexual energy.

Originally Posted by Kamickalo

If we look at the Six Yogas of Naropa, some of the "coolest" tantric practices, there is a strong case for including both Body Control and Dreaming as skills. The Yogas of Naropa are what allow monks to perform feats like vastly increasing their body temperature (called Tummo), and use lucid dreaming to further their meditation practice (called Milam). Dreaming skill could further be connected (maybe through techniques) to the other yogas which connect monks to their guru (called Phowa - might be telepathy in GURPS) and purifying/projecting one's consciousness at the moment of death (GURPS effects, if any, are debatable).

For something that looks reasonably like a real-life practitioner of tantra, a talent might look like: Meditation, Breath Control, Theology, Religious Ritual, Body Control, Dreaming, Erotic Art, Mental Strength.

I want the talent to represent the ability to control his own body and sexual energy. He has Theology, but I don't view it as being dependent on how powerful his mystical control over his chakras (or whatever) is.

Rasul has other traits to represent his personal relationship with the revived deity he serves and those traits would influence his Theology and Religious Ritual skills.

I agree with Body Control, Breath Control, Erotic Art, Meditation and Mental Strength. I've penciled in Autohypnosis and Esoteric Medicine, as well.

In addition to Religious Ritual and Theology, you're suggesting Dreaming and you make a good case for it. I'll certainly consider it.

Other suggestions include Body Language and Sensitivity, which would represent sensing the physical energy of others. That seems good to me, though the cut-off point for what I want to represent with the talent might be put on either side of the divide between his own energy and that of others.

I do want to include Sex Appeal and probably Intimidation, as well, given that Rasul specifically channels his chi and sexual energy to attract others and dominate them, especially with his Power Gaze technique, which in his case seems to be very much a sexual domination thing.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I do want to include Sex Appeal and probably Intimidation, as well, given that Rasul specifically channels his chi and sexual energy to attract others and dominate them, especially with his Power Gaze technique, which in his case seems to be very much a sexual domination thing.

I would let him use an adaptation/substitution perk for Intimidation working off Sex Appeal.Saves a skill slot for the Talent.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I would let him use an adaptation/substitution perk for Intimidation working off Sex Appeal.Saves a skill slot for the Talent.

Well, he's spent more points on his Intimidation skill than his Sex Appeal skill so far, but I have used the Attribute Substitution Perk before to allow characters to use Attribute X + Talent Y for a certain skill which doesn't ordinarily fall under that Talent.

It suits my view of Talents, that they are essentially aspects of one or more Attributes.

[AlexanderHowl]

Intimidation is a separate skill from Sex Appeal, so there cannot be a substitution (substitution works for skill subsystems, like feinting or kicking, not for entire skills). Otherwise, why not substitute Intimidation for Diplomacy or Sex Appeal for Fast-Talk? Or Physics for Biology or Astronomy for Chemistry? Or Bow for Guns or Karate for Judo?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Intimidation is a separate skill from Sex Appeal, so there cannot be a substitution (substitution works for skill subsystems, like feinting or kicking, not for entire skills). Otherwise, why not substitute Intimidation for Diplomacy or Sex Appeal for Fast-Talk? Or Physics for Biology or Astronomy for Chemistry? Or Bow for Guns or Karate for Judo?

You mean like Shortsword for Smallsword, which is a canonical Perk?

[David Johnston2]

Esoteric Medicine comes to mind.

[AlexanderHowl]

Originally Posted by Icelander

You mean like Shortsword for Smallsword, which is a canonical Perk?

Shortsword and Smallsword default to each other, Intimidation and Sex Appeal do not. The perk is Weapon Adaptation, which allows a character to use the weapons of one skill with the weapons of another related skill (no greater default than -4). A character with Rapier could have Weapon Adaptation (Broadsword), but they could not have Weapon Adaptation (Flail).