Help with Seven Deadly Sins

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Sort of predictable and not particularly fair, unless you're going for a "noir" style mystery or stereotypical killings by a cinematic serial killer.

Most prostitutes aren't the trade because they enjoy sex, many fat people aren't particularly gluttonous, trade unionists have historically been motivated by ideals other than envy, and homeless people aren't necessarily lazy.

If you want a "cozy" type mystery, the victims should be unpleasant enough that just about everyone is happy to see them dead.

Perhaps:

Lust - A pornographer, porn actor, pimp, or just a particularly odious celebrity notable for their sleazy and scandalous sexual escapades.

Gluttony - A fast food marketer or celebrity chef. (Or a diet guru if you want to riff on Terry Pratchett's/Neil Gaiman's take on Famine in "Good Omens")

A celebrity gossip columnist, a nakedly ambitious politician, or second rate reality TV star for Envy. Basically, anyone who tears down others to build their own wealth and power and maliciously damages other peoples' reputations and careers out of spite.

In modern times, Sloth is represented as physical laziness, but "accedia" actually translates as ennui, apathy, "spiritual torpor," or sullenness. Spiritually, it represents the ability to act but the refusal to do so, resulting in "malign neglect" which damages both the perpetrator and those around them. So, rather than having the murder victim be a vagrant (stereotypical victim #1, right before the streetwalker, victim #2), make the Slothful victim more interesting - a spoiled playboy/girl or a bureaucrat or ex-military officer whose incompetence and political intransigence indirectly caused the deaths of hundreds of people.

It's not supposed to be fair. It is supposed to be in the absurdly self-righteous eyes of a stereotyped serial killer.

For instance the prostitute could be a rape-slave who can't help her position. The Glutton can just be chubby which says nothing about their nature. The rich person can be a generous philanthropist. The celebrity doesn't have to be prideful about it, the Unionist might be dedicated protector of the interests of workers, and the vagrant just a guy down on his luck. I can't figure out how a brawler can be not guilty of wrath though.

But the stereotyped serial killers of this type are self-righteous and impute their own one dimensional pictures on their victims. And yes that is kind of noirish.

[ravenfish]

One potential ending would be for the killer to save Pride for last and fulfill it by commit suicide since, by taking it on himself to punish people for sin, he is usurping the prerogative of the Deity- the greatest act of Pride imaginable. This would probably not work in play, both because it would deprive the players of the chance to confront him and because it would imply someone with a greater degree of self-awareness than bizarre serial killers usually possess, but I like the idea too much not to share it.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

One potential ending would be for the killer to save Pride for last and fulfill it by commit suicide since, by taking it on himself to punish people for sin, he is usurping the prerogative of the Deity- the greatest act of Pride imaginable. This would probably not work in play, both because it would deprive the players of the chance to confront him and because it would imply someone with a greater degree of self-awareness than bizarre serial killers usually possess, but I like the idea too much not to share it.

Huh. That sounds like something James Kirk would fast-talk a computer into doing at the climax of an episode.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Huh. That sounds like something James Kirk would fast-talk a computer into doing at the climax of an episode.

Or part of a rather unsatisfying Fallout sequel...

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

One potential ending would be for the killer to save Pride for last and fulfill it by commit suicide since, by taking it on himself to punish people for sin, he is usurping the prerogative of the Deity- the greatest act of Pride imaginable. This would probably not work in play, both because it would deprive the players of the chance to confront him and because it would imply someone with a greater degree of self-awareness than bizarre serial killers usually possess, but I like the idea too much not to share it.

It is kind of cool. But by committing suicide he is committing despair, which is a subset of pride because he is saying that he is important enough to commit enough sins that God cannot forgive him (or alternately, deciding for himself that his sins are unforgivable).

Yes that is a bit of a mind-screw but that is roughly what the Catholic catechism says.

On the other hand in a serial killer story it may not be inappropriate. Besides suicide is a dramatic ending.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

One potential ending would be for the killer to save Pride for last and fulfill it by commit suicide since, by taking it on himself to punish people for sin, he is usurping the prerogative of the Deity- the greatest act of Pride imaginable. This would probably not work in play, both because it would deprive the players of the chance to confront him and because it would imply someone with a greater degree of self-awareness than bizarre serial killers usually possess, but I like the idea too much not to share it.

I had thought of that, but thought it would make for an unsatisfying ending. Some players, if they realize that is the end play, will decide to just let it happen and call that victory. On the other hand, maybe he plans to hijack a public event to deliver his manifesto and then take a lot of people with him. Very publicly demonstrate his own the sin of pride, and it's toll.

Maybe a Pride Parade?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Maybe a Pride Parade?

Oh, now that's elegant. I particularly like that in conflates the positive moral sense of pride (as meaning self-respect) with the negative (as meaning vanity).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

It is kind of cool. But by committing suicide he is committing despair, which is a subset of pride because he is saying that he is important enough to commit enough sins that God cannot forgive him (or alternately, deciding for himself that his sins are unforgivable).

Is it? I thought that despair was an extreme form of sloth: undervaluing the good things that God gave you and failing to cultivate them.

[Anders]

The theological term acedia, which is usually translated as Sloth, looks a lot like melancholy depression.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Is it? I thought that despair was an extreme form of sloth: undervaluing the good things that God gave you and failing to cultivate them.

"Despair, ethically regarded, is the voluntary and complete abandonment of all hope of saving one's soul and of having the means required for that end. It is not a passive state of mind: on the contrary it involves a positive act of the will by which a person deliberately gives over any expectation of ever reaching eternal life. There is presupposed an intervention of the intellect in virtue of which one comes to decide definitely that salvation is impossible. This last is motived by the persuasion either that the individual's sins are too great to be forgiven or that it is too hard for human nature to cooperate with the grace of God or that Almighty God is unwilling to aid the weakness or pardon the offenses of his creatures, etc."

New Advent

That sounds like a sin one can expect of a country singer. Is it a sin one can expect of a serial killer? It would be interesting though.