Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-11-2010, 11:33 AM   #31
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
What is the benefit of (non-magical) Zeroed?

The MIB are a fine example of Zeroed, to be sure. But what does it do for them? .
It means their activities are not recorded by any other agency.
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 11:40 AM   #32
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
It means their activities are not recorded by any other agency.
Um...how? I don't think it protects you from surveillance. They're protected from agencies that systematically observe all people with Social Security numbers and nobody without them, but that's pretty much an empty set in almost any universe.

The MIB organization will systematically wipe out any records that may be generated by their activities, but that isn't part of Zeroed.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 11:51 AM   #33
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Um...how? I don't think it protects you from surveillance. They're protected from agencies that systematically observe all people with Social Security numbers and nobody without them, but that's pretty much an empty set in almost any universe.

The MIB organization will systematically wipe out any records that may be generated by their activities, but that isn't part of Zeroed.
Yeah it is, as long as the Zero'd person doesn't push things so far they break.
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 12:31 PM   #34
Captain-Captain
 
Captain-Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edges View Post
It's been pointed out in another thread that Zeroed can give some resistance to supernatural detection. I can see how that would be an advantage in some campaigns.

But the other aspect of Zeroed, no records, seems like double edged sword. Among other things, unless you also take Alternate Identity, you have no ID. Not having ID is a big disadvantage in many campaigns.

What was the thinking behind making Zeroed a flat point advantage rather than an UB, an advan/disadvan as determined by the GM, or a 0-point feature to which Resistant (Supernatural Detection) could be added?
Zeroed IMHO was underpriced in the Cyberworld book. If found out, a zeroed character would be arrested, almost surely be convicted on felony charges, do years in prison, have an identity of the state' choosing imposed on the charcter.

It was game mechanically, the 20 pt version of the Secret disadvantage. You just got cheated out of the extra points.
__________________
...().0...0()
.../..........\
-/......O.....\-
...VVVVVVV
..^^^^^^^

A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day.
Captain-Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 12:37 PM   #35
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Do realize that Zeroed isn't meant to be an initial condition that wears off the first time somebody takes your picture. It assumes maintenance, and some off-screen means of achieving that. You're Zeroed now and, a few weeks later when your picture shows up again, you're still Zeroed because whatever means made you Zeroed in the first place nuked the records. That's how it works.

Those whose worlds don't assume forces powerful enough to wipe out arbitrarily secure records shouldn't use Zeroed. Neither should gamers who just want to be mysterious Man With No Name types. If you're simply somebody who starts play with no identity and gradually builds up a permanent record, you're not Zeroed. You have something more akin to Zeroed as a one-use advantage (1/5 cost, 2 points, like Favor), if not just a perk.

Zeroed is for people who work for the MIBs . . . or have a backdoor into SkyNet . . . or possess supernatural abilities that completely transmute them every sunset . . . or serve Oblivius, God of Nothingness. It's an active trait. It isn't just an Unusual Background.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 12:40 PM   #36
starslayer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

I just thought up a very mundane and real world application of zeroed:

If you have wealth <or even if you do not> and have zeroed; your wealth will not be taxed since there is no record of you having received that money.

Thus even in its default state it becomes the classic 'has a Swiss bank account' advantage used often by both rich CEOs and criminal masterminds.
starslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 12:52 PM   #37
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain View Post
Zeroed IMHO was underpriced in the Cyberworld book. If found out, a zeroed character would be arrested, almost surely be convicted on felony charges, do years in prison, have an identity of the state' choosing imposed on the charcter.
.
Except of course that every single character would have those things happen to them if they were found out and caught, and the Zero'd characters were a lot harder to find out.
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 12:53 PM   #38
Lord Carnifex
 
Lord Carnifex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darekun View Post
IIRC it appeared in Neuromancer(1984), but I'm not sure; it doesn't appear Gibson had a name for it.
Gibson references the basic idea in Mona Lisa Overdrive, calling it "being SINless" - lacking a Single Identification Number.

He actually gives a couple of good examples in that book, too. Mona is zeroed because no one ever entered her into the system in the first place. She has no birth record, no government ID, and hates interacting with suits (and probably government workers of all pay grades. She pays cash for everything, or gets it through her boyfriend. When they travel, they do it by car, bus, or train.

OTOH, there is Molly. Molly probably had her identity wiped from the system at some point. She interacts with bureaucracy through temporary fake ID's (none of the robust enough to be GURPS Alternate Identity, which IIRC negates Zeroed). Running her face or fingerprints through the system turns up nothing, and none of her IDs will stand up to too much scrutiny, but they'll pass for a while. She maintains her Zeroed status by mostly working through cutouts, cash, and numbered accounts. If she's thoroughly investigated, the authorities will have to try and figure out what aliases and temporary identities she's used in the past to try and pin anything on her.

That's really what it takes to stay Zeroed, at least in a cyberpunk context. The zeroed character has to avoid doing anything that will create a record attached to their permanent ID. That means either paying cash and staying off the grid, or using a lot of blinds, cutouts, and fake documents.
__________________
An ongoing narrative of philosophy, psychology, and semiotics: Et in Arcadia Ego

"To an Irishman, a serious matter is a joke, and a joke is a serious matter."
Lord Carnifex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 01:02 PM   #39
Captain-Captain
 
Captain-Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Except of course that every single character would have those things happen to them if they were found out and caught, and the Zero'd characters were a lot harder to find out.
That was the problem: In the Cyberworld dictatrorship, you could be compelled to give your fingerprints for scan without being charged hirst. SOP was to arrest anyone who didn't show up as a person on file and turn him over to the NERRC (Gestapo) post haste. REad the text of it in the book.
__________________
...().0...0()
.../..........\
-/......O.....\-
...VVVVVVV
..^^^^^^^

A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day.
Captain-Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 01:36 PM   #40
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain View Post
That was the problem: In the Cyberworld dictatrorship, you could be compelled to give your fingerprints for scan without being charged hirst. SOP was to arrest anyone who didn't show up as a person on file and turn him over to the NERRC (Gestapo) post haste. REad the text of it in the book.
My first impulse was to just say that was silly. The network demands for that many fingerprint checks plus the inefficiency of any dictatorship, especially one in a semi chaotic cyberpunk universe would mean the system would be constantly down. Then I remembered that I actually do have a copy of Cyberworld and did check the text.

Usually all they would do is check the card's onboard memory. Mr. Zero would of course have a fake card with an onboard memory that said he was nobody special, or perhaps somebody very special as in "Get out of my way" special. Sometimes they'd check with the network, at which point Mr. Zero either has a card that can do something called a "double shuffle" or Mr. Zero has had a hacker put a file in the national data banks which will automatically pass inspection without an intensive investigation of the kind that says "You are already going to jail".

The advantage Mr. Zero has over someone who already has an identity, is that someone who already has an identity can't just plant a fake ID in the databanks and have it pass, because a network check will then turn up two different identities attached to that thumbprint.

That being said, if having no identity is a crime, then that crime is a Secret. You'd get it as well as your Zero'd advantage.
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
krommpost, zeroed

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.