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Old 11-04-2013, 06:06 PM   #21
Anthony
 
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

The easiest method, since it doesn't require any actual rules changes, is to just require (ST-10) additional levels of lifting ST, which makes max human ST something like ST 15/20
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:07 PM   #22
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The easiest method, since it doesn't require any actual rules changes, is to just require (ST-10) additional levels of lifting ST, which makes max human ST something like ST 15/20
Making Lifting ST not exotic isn't a rules change?
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Making Lifting ST not exotic isn't a rules change?
It costs no points to buy exotic traits; at most, it influences what the GM might charge an unusual background for.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
40-50 was more typical.
If you want full coverage, that much weight will give you DR 4 for mail, DR 3 for scale, or DR 2 for leather (if I'm not mistaken). It seems like you need to cut ST damage WAY down to make this level of DR significant. At that point, the granularity gets so course that with a little luck, joe average is routinely doing more than Conan.

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
That reduces wounding while not changing penetration. Since we're talking about penetration, not bullet lethality, that has no bearing on the matter at hand.
Good point.

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
I'll note that a lot of GURPS gets pretty cinematic pretty quick if you use basic attributes above 15.
That's why I specified in my OP that high ST is usually around 13-14 in the games in question.

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Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk View Post
I think you might get better results by rejiggering how you calculate lifting weight so that normal human maximums for ST tends to cap out at 15-16...
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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The easiest method, since it doesn't require any actual rules changes, is to just require (ST-10) additional levels of lifting ST, which makes max human ST something like ST 15/20
But whenever I've calculated lifting capacity for world class lifters (taking into account Extra Effort and the Lifting skill), ST seems to cap out at around 16 anyway. There doesn't appear to be a need to rework lifting ST.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

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40-50 was more typical for a full harness of plate.
Thanks, Dan. Sorry to clutter the discussion with bad data.

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As has been said, the damage of hand weapons in GURPS is too high. Scale it back so it is consistent with armour and firearms.
I knew this was true of bows, I hadn't realized it was so of other "muscle weapons" as well. Thanks again.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

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As has been said, the damage of hand weapons in GURPS is too high. Scale it back so it is consistent with armour and firearms.
Could I trouble you for some numbers?
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

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Originally Posted by Edges View Post
But whenever I've calculated lifting capacity for world class lifters (taking into account Extra Effort and the Lifting skill), ST seems to cap out at around 16 anyway. There doesn't appear to be a need to rework lifting ST.
Then max human ST is 13/16. The increase in damage from ST 10 to 11 is unreasonably large.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:25 PM   #28
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

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Originally Posted by Edges View Post
If you want full coverage, that much weight will give you DR 4 for mail, DR 3 for scale, or DR 2 for leather (if I'm not mistaken). It seems like you need to cut ST damage WAY down to make this level of DR significant.
Hand-to-hand weapon damage needs to be reduced if you want realism.

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Could I trouble you for some numbers?
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At that point, the granularity gets so course that with a little luck, joe average is routinely doing more than Conan.
Which is why it would be better to increase HP, armour DR, and firearms damage. It gives more scope at the bottom end of the scale for hand weapons. I'd like to see this fleshed out:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=119089

It would also make lower DR armour easier to model. Winter clothing, light leather armour, and maybe even human flesh would all be DR 1 for example.
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Last edited by DanHoward; 11-04-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 11-04-2013, 06:44 PM   #29
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

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Could I trouble you for some numbers?
http://gamingballistic.blogspot.com/...ry-part-1.html
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:16 PM   #30
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Default Re: [LT] No More Nerf Armor

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Originally Posted by Edges View Post
If you want full coverage, that much weight will give you DR 4 for mail, DR 3 for scale, or DR 2 for leather (if I'm not mistaken). It seems like you need to cut ST damage WAY down to make this level of DR significant. At that point, the granularity gets so course that with a little luck, joe average is routinely doing more than Conan.
Possibly, but that figure was for plate, which has higher DR per pound of weight than any of those. It should give DR 6 for a good portion of the body, a little less in certain areas like the hands that can't get normal full plate.
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