06-08-2021, 11:12 AM | #1 | |
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
This recent thread on Flashbangs/Stun Grenades has gotten me thinking about the rules for said devices, specifically this part:
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For a HT10 NPC, that's what...a 5% chance to succeed? In my personal RL experience, normal folks usually recover from the effects of Flashbangs sometime around the 6 second mark, give or take. When PCs have used them in action games, rarely do the NPCs ever pass the HT -5 roll, and the PCs end up being able to act with impunity for way longer than they should. Has anyone out there had the same experience? Do any of you GMs have special house rules for stun grenades? Do your players ever even employ them? |
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06-08-2021, 11:38 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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To be honest the only issue with Stun Grenade that I see is that it has zero crushing explosive damage, so it cannot take advantage of High-Tech's optional rules for explosions in interiors. Stingballs are superior in that regard, because they come with effects of flashbang AND release shrapnel AND cause cr ex damage.
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit |
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06-08-2021, 12:41 PM | #3 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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FWIW, I wasn't complaining about the mechanical potency, just that it normally will take a $hit-ton of rolls for a HT 10 person to succeed on a HT-5 roll. For $hits and giggles, I just did some test rolls for 4 HT 10 NPCs. Here's how many rolls/seconds it took for them to recover from the standard Stun Grenade in High Tech: 1st NPC: 15 rolls/seconds 2nd NPC: 21 rolls/seconds 3rd NPC: 48 rolls/seconds 4th NPC: 07 rolls/seconds I get that data is anecdotal, but it pretty much mimics the experiences I have had in actual games. NPCs that get flashbanged are DONE unless they have one or more of the following:
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06-08-2021, 12:55 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
Just as technicallity most soldiers will have Fit and the +1 to HT-based rolls in that AD counts for this case.
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Fred Brackin |
06-08-2021, 01:08 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2019
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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Taking NPCs more than 10 seconds to un-stun is the intended behavior. It's a device meant for that. Considering it takes a long time to bring the grenade into play, and then capitalize on it's effects, it's more than fair from game perspective.
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Your level of GURPS proficiency: Pedestrian: 3e vs 4e Proficient: Early 4e vs Late 4e Master: Kromm vs PK GURPS: Shooting things for fun and profit |
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06-08-2021, 01:12 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
With effective HT 5, the chance to recover within 6 seconds is around 25%. This jumps to 44% for HT 6, 65% for HT 7, 83% for HT 8, 94% for HT 9, and 98% for HT 10.
An active-duty soldier is likely to have effective HT 11 or 12 prior to the penalty (as noted, the bonus from Fit applies). So, leaving things as-is (HT-5 to recover), that means around a 50% chance to recover within 6 seconds. Change the penalty to recover to -4, that jumps to somewhere around 70%. An alternative would be a +1 to recover per previous attempt (which I believe recovering from surprise uses). So if it's HT-5 to recover the first second, then HT-4, then HT-3, etc, then an HT 10 character is looking at around an 83% chance to recover within 6 seconds, an HT 11 one is looking at around 93%, and an HT 12 one is looking at around 98%.
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GURPS Overhaul |
06-08-2021, 01:22 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
Below HT 10, someone can't finish military training or is medically disqualified before it starts. That means every soldier has HT 10 at minimum, and a significant portion of them will have higher HT, especially those who work out a lot (required for many MOSes) and/or have active hobbies. Finally, anyone who finished military training and continues to qualify for any kind of combat MOS will have at least Fit.
This means that all soldiers have effective HT 11+ and probably a majority of those who train room clearing have 12+.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! |
06-08-2021, 02:14 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Dec 2020
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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Most armys who have conscription, may have a lot of people spending time in the army who have to be considered unfit for frontline duty due to bad sight, and a bunch of other lesser medical problems. You can also add low morale since they are forced to serve, and they are often in the rear area or non combat dutys in this armys. Just look at russia here. It gets even worse if landlocked countrys fight a actual war, than they take everybody who can hold a gun and doesn´t endangers the own side more than the enemy. But this isn´t the end, if the war takes longer and gets all out, they take everyone who can walk maybe not even that. Here a look at the german Volksturm helps, in the last year of WWII the wehrmacht had a whole division composed of soldiers with severe gastrointestinal problems! |
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06-08-2021, 02:20 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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Against HT11 (or HT10+Fit) it's about 7 seconds/turns. So if you assume HT11/HT10+Fit for a trained and active frontline combatant, you get your 'about six seconds'. Against HT12, the half-life of the stun is about 4s. Of course, because it's a half-life effect, there's a long tail (and of course a lucky character can snap out of it immediately, or just not be affected in the first place). Also, bear in mind that this is against enemies that are not prepared for an attack - if they were they'd have one of both of hearing protection and flash protection, and would thus be far less likely to be affected.
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Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
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06-08-2021, 03:46 PM | #10 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2015
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Re: Further Discussion on Stun Grenades
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If your experience is more recent, that could explain the difference in potency. BTW, your blog is high-speed. Keep it up. Quote:
Also, in the games I've run, my PCs only really deployed bangers when they had time, and never really while under fire or out in the open. Giving the badguys 3 - 4 seconds of dumping fire on you while you prep a banger never seemed to be a smart play, so they didn't do it. |
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action, tactical shooting |
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