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Old 06-23-2020, 06:43 PM   #21
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

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Originally Posted by bocephus View Post
The formula for distance is based on 1yd being the 0 point. I disagree with that, but, you as GM have to take responsibility for any variation in the rules. I think this makes bows far too inefficient and penalizes what "proficient" should be and chose to move the zero point to 10yds, then let it scale as it was in the rules.
Minor quibble, but the zero-point for the system is at 2 yards rather than 1 (1 yard is +2, although generally you can't claim a bonus for close range). The idea of rezeroing it may indeed have some validity to it. I sort-of came to a similar idea on my own some time ago, albeit more in the form of a stick than a carrot - the idea being that at 1 yard and further, the attack penalty should be the worse of Bulk+2 and Range, at least against mobile targets (basically, bulkier weapons are harder to reposition quickly). In the case of, say, a reflex bow (Bulk -7), this puts the "zero-point" at 15 yards, but you're at -5 to skill out to this point, not +0.

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
One of the problems with with accuracy in GURPS is that the adjustments for target motion are much too small.
Ideally, the penalty to speed should depend on speed relative to the size of the target. A person moving at 5 mph (~2 yards per second) isn't much more difficult to hit than a human standing more-or-less motionless, but a housefly moving at the same speed is nearly impossible to hit, even though one that is stationary isn't too much of a challenge. Contrariwise, even at a decent clip Godzilla is a hard-to-miss target.
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Old 06-23-2020, 08:34 PM   #22
Keampe
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

One thing to consider from the historical perspective is consistency. Specifically the arrows. Every arrow in your quiver is hand made out of natural materials. Now a good Fletcher will be quite consistent but there are limits that modern arrows don't have - modern arrows are very consistent. This is why TL7+ weapons are fine at no extra cost.

If you've ever shot a quiver with arrows from different manufacturers in it, you'll know what that's like. Most archers have, when they start out, myself included. :)

Seems to me that such consistent arrows should qualify for an accuracy bonus, but the rules don't reflect that. Then again, the medieval archer might just be very familiar with each arrow and know it's individual properties. You could treat that as an unfamiliarity penalty if the characters get new arrows - some time at the butts will cure the penalty.

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Old 06-23-2020, 08:36 PM   #23
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

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Originally Posted by Keampe View Post
the medieval archer might just be very familiar with each arrow and know it's individual properties.
Maybe even practically personal friends. "Arrow! Black arrow! I have saved you to the last. You have never failed me and I have always recovered you."
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Old 06-23-2020, 08:38 PM   #24
Keampe
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Maybe even practically personal friends. "Arrow! Black arrow! I have saved you to the last. You have never failed me and I have always recovered you."
Heh! Where's the "like" button?

- Shane
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Old 06-24-2020, 03:16 AM   #25
smurf
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keampe View Post
One thing to consider from the historical perspective is consistency. Specifically the arrows. Every arrow in your quiver is hand made out of natural materials. Now a good Fletcher will be quite consistent but there are limits that modern arrows don't have - modern arrows are very consistent. This is why TL7+ weapons are fine at no extra cost.

If you've ever shot a quiver with arrows from different manufacturers in it, you'll know what that's like. Most archers have, when they start out, myself included. :)

Seems to me that such consistent arrows should qualify for an accuracy bonus, but the rules don't reflect that. Then again, the medieval archer might just be very familiar with each arrow and know it's individual properties. You could treat that as an unfamiliarity penalty if the characters get new arrows - some time at the butts will cure the penalty.

- Shane
IIRC the Bow at TL7+ also can be Compound/Recurve, this gets a bit more sinister with their Crossbow equivalents.

B270 gives a Max ST for melee weapons and I believe they apply it to Bows too.

The Longbow has a min ST 11 and could theoretically have a Max ST of 33 thrust +2 imp, where as a Recurve bow it is Maxed ST 30 thrust +3 imp.

It gets scarier with the Composite Crossbow that can be cranked up to ST 24 thrust +5 imp, whereas the Military Crossbow that can be cranked to ST 36 thrust +5 imp.

Another aspect is that all Bows are designed for the Shooter. If you have a buff dude with ST16 then someone finding such a weapon and is ST11 is going to have a hard job shooting it.
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Old 06-24-2020, 04:16 AM   #26
Aldric
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
IIRC the Bow at TL7+ also can be Compound/Recurve, this gets a bit more sinister with their Crossbow equivalents.

B270 gives a Max ST for melee weapons and I believe they apply it to Bows too.

The Longbow has a min ST 11 and could theoretically have a Max ST of 33 thrust +2 imp, where as a Recurve bow it is Maxed ST 30 thrust +3 imp.

It gets scarier with the Composite Crossbow that can be cranked up to ST 24 thrust +5 imp, whereas the Military Crossbow that can be cranked to ST 36 thrust +5 imp.

Another aspect is that all Bows are designed for the Shooter. If you have a buff dude with ST16 then someone finding such a weapon and is ST11 is going to have a hard job shooting it.
B270 also says what the ST score means for bows and crossbows specifically. It's the ST score of the weapon and you use that to calculate damage.
If you have a ST 12 bow, it doesn't matter if your ST is 12, 13 or 30.

Edit:if I could get my hands on HT and check compound weapons...

Last edited by Aldric; 06-24-2020 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:25 AM   #27
smurf
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Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

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Originally Posted by Aldric View Post
B270 also says what the ST score means for bows and crossbows specifically. It's the ST score of the weapon and you use that to calculate damage.
If you have a ST 12 bow, it doesn't matter if your ST is 12, 13 or 30.

Edit:if I could get my hands on HT and check compound weapons...
Don't you mean LT, I can't see anything in HT regarding bows.
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Old 06-24-2020, 05:26 AM   #28
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

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Originally Posted by JazzJedi View Post
So I'm doing a historical campaign set during the 100 years war, and I wanted to come up with rules for draw weights and bows. Do these rules exist anywhere? I have a little archery experience: I own a 45-lb. super-grizzly recurve, and a 70-lb. Optimus compound bow - I've gone bow hunting about a dozen times in the last 20 years, but I don't shoot as regularly as I should - maybe 2-3 times per month for a couple of hours each time. I've tried firing a 100-lb warbow, and it is difficult, but I can shoot it 5-6 times before I need a good rest. I imagine I could pull a 130-pound bow maybe once before needing to rest for a good minute.
Aside from "The Deadly Spring" and GURPS Tactical Shooting (oriented towards firearms and contemporary US thinking), GURPS Martial Arts has rules for archers in heavy bow traditions buying up Striking ST for the purpose of archery. (Heavy bows were a fad in 16th century Eurasia, but its not at all clear to me that all traditional archers used heavy bows for war).

That Mongol anecdote does not sound like either of the two Eurasian archery traditions I know (shower shooting from long range, and sending single riders to gallop close, loose a few arrows at point blank range, and gallop away while the next rider approaches and picks her prey).
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Old 06-24-2020, 06:44 AM   #29
johndallman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

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Originally Posted by smurf View Post
Don't you mean LT, I can't see anything in HT regarding bows.
See p. 201 in High-Tech for compound bows, which are TL7.
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Old 06-24-2020, 12:42 PM   #30
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Bow draw weights and skill

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Aside from "The Deadly Spring" and GURPS Tactical Shooting (oriented towards firearms and contemporary US thinking), GURPS Martial Arts has rules for archers in heavy bow traditions buying up Striking ST for the purpose of archery. (Heavy bows were a fad in 16th century Eurasia, but its not at all clear to me that all traditional archers used heavy bows for war).

That Mongol anecdote does not sound like either of the two Eurasian archery traditions I know (shower shooting from long range, and sending single riders to gallop close, loose a few arrows at point blank range, and gallop away while the next rider approaches and picks her prey).
Though only Foot Archery gives special exercises for ST, and it allows the purchase of up to Arm ST+3 rather than any level of Striking ST (Arm ST is arguably a better deal). Heavier bows could be used with the Huge Weapons (ST) and Strongbow perks. Arguably, a character with ST 12, Arm ST+3, Huge Weapons (ST) 2, Strongbow, and Bow at DX+2 or higher could use a ST 19 composite bow, which would deal 2d+2 impaling damage, up to 2d+8 impaling with very fine arrows and Weapon Master (Composite Bow).

Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 06-24-2020 at 12:47 PM.
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