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Old 08-23-2021, 12:05 PM   #21
juris
 
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Default Re: Silly Cars

Probably correct but an AM is like an interior tripod weapon that doesn't suffer the -1 penalty for firing hand weapons inside a vehicle. I prefer them to pintle mounts as you can't get your head shot off ;)

From what I remember an AM takes a space by itself, plus the space of the weapon (hand weapons are zero extra spaces), and can be fired by a passenger as you point out. I'd rule that they use the handgunner skill as well. I'd use the rules for tripod weapons and say that a AM is really just a tripod weapon that is fixed in place and cannot be removed in combat.

BTW UACFH has the tripod rules on p142-143 - works for me. A tripod weapon weighs 1/2 the weapon's weight plus 25 lbs, and costs %10 of the weapon.

If using an AM for a hand weapon that's 10% the cost of the weapon, 25 lbs, 1 space. Allows a hand weapon like a HAVR to be fired from a fixed position without a -1 penalty for using a hand weapon. The weapon is fixed in place and cannot be removed in combat.

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
The articulated mount needs a lot more work before it can be used out of the C&C niche where these questions do not arise. I think the tripod rules and pintle rules replace the mount (for post C&C games) and make it obsolete which is why it never made it into CWC 2.5 or UACFH.

.
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Old 08-23-2021, 04:07 PM   #22
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Default Re: Silly Cars

The other C&C mount is the fixed mount.

I'd be in favour of that also using half weight weapons (C&C implies they are full weight, but this was when a tripod weapon was a special thing not a generic weapon on a tripod).

Basically it is a tripod mount locked off in one position (straight out). These could be fired by normal passengers as they cannot be aimed. They are treated as firing on automatic or a designated "gunner" (who only takes one space) can take a firing action to fire at a specific time.

That would make the game much more tactical as your firing is entirely dependent on your drivers ability to point the car.
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Old 08-24-2021, 12:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Silly Cars

I'd allow it. I'd love to pit Chassis and Crossbow vehicles against regular cars - fits with your 'dreg' gang idea... Just add metal armor and bumper spikes ;)

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Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
The other C&C mount is the fixed mount.

I'd be in favour of that also using half weight weapons (C&C implies they are full weight, but this was when a tripod weapon was a special thing not a generic weapon on a tripod).

Basically it is a tripod mount locked off in one position (straight out). These could be fired by normal passengers as they cannot be aimed. They are treated as firing on automatic or a designated "gunner" (who only takes one space) can take a firing action to fire at a specific time.

That would make the game much more tactical as your firing is entirely dependent on your drivers ability to point the car.
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Old 08-24-2021, 02:02 PM   #24
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I'd love to pit Chassis and Crossbow vehicles against regular cars
Did that in NOVA -- unfortunately, HESH ammo does Really Bad Things to _C&C_-level designs (esp. with the "spalling" rule). Only allowing "pocket-box"-level designs and tech makes the fights a bit more equal (and interesting).

As to "silly designs":

Hang Glider: $500|$500 60|60
Rocket Pack: $10,000|$10,500 100|160
HAVR: $900|$11,400 30|190
Pilot: $0|$11,400 150|340
Acc.: 10; TS: 20 [unpowered]; 60 [powered]; HC: 2

Yes, this has seen scenario use....
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Old 08-24-2021, 06:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: Silly Cars

A rocket pack with a HAVR isn't going to work - too many grenade equivalents and you need one hand for steering. I promise you people are shooting for the rocket pack to watch you explode like the fourth of July. Does it come with different colored explosions? ;) I guess you could spray people with a machine pistol...

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Did that in NOVA -- unfortunately, HESH ammo does Really Bad Things to _C&C_-level designs (esp. with the "spalling" rule). Only allowing "pocket-box"-level designs and tech makes the fights a bit more equal (and interesting).

As to "silly designs":

Hang Glider: $500|$500 60|60
Rocket Pack: $10,000|$10,500 100|160
HAVR: $900|$11,400 30|190
Pilot: $0|$11,400 150|340
Acc.: 10; TS: 20 [unpowered]; 60 [powered]; HC: 2

Yes, this has seen scenario use....
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Old 08-25-2021, 12:10 AM   #26
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Default Re: Silly Cars

I don't see that hang gliders and rocket packs are compatible. Even if they were that would be 4 GE.

Now Hang Glider and hand weapon are ok, but your pilot is still -3 on any to hit rolls so he'd be better off dropping grenades (all over the place) but at least the grenade can't roll under his seat :)

As to launching the glider you could make the cheapest vehicle you can and put in an ejector seat.

PopTart by Swordtart:
Light Cycle; Cycle chassis; Light suspension;
10 cid Engine w/Carb.;
3 gal. Economy tank;
2 Standard tires.
Driver. Ejection Seat.
Cargo 1 Spc, 189 lb
Cost: $1,226, Wgt: 611,
HC: 0, Top Speed: 70, Accel: 5.

I think this is the cheapest vehicle it is possible to make with an ejection seat in CW (short of the experimental bicycle rules). Frankly you might prefer your chances off of it and be glad to eject. If pillion is allowed the ejector seat then you could have an actual rider to take the bike home. Otherwise a radio detonated or bumper triggered Kamibomb is a popular alternative.

Add ABV and a scoped SMG with extended mag and extra grenades and you might be able to use this as a disposable convoy point vehicle. If it runs into an ambush pull the yellow handle and rise above your problems. Grenades can deal with infantry and the kami bomb can at least dent any obstructions.
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Old 08-25-2021, 11:30 AM   #27
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Default Re: Silly Cars

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Add ABV and a scoped SMG with extended mag and extra grenades and you might be able to use this as a disposable convoy point vehicle. If it runs into an ambush pull the yellow handle and rise above your problems. Grenades can deal with infantry and the kami bomb can at least dent any obstructions.
Hmmm... this would also be a great tactic against a "Kamikaze Oops".
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Old 08-25-2021, 02:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: Silly Cars

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Originally Posted by juris View Post
A rocket pack with a HAVR isn't going to work - too many grenade equivalents and you need one hand for steering. I promise you people are shooting for the rocket pack to watch you explode like the fourth of July. Does it come with different colored explosions? ;) I guess you could spray people with a machine pistol...
The Hang Glider and Rocket Pack weren't being "worn", strictly speaking -- picture an ultralight with a rocket pack replacing the prop-driven engine (and hum a few bars of _The A-Team_ Theme while you're at it :) ). That's why I included Alt-Encumbrance weights, not GEs.

(For completeness: The Player Character had to escape an airport/truck-stop where all the ground exits were being covered by Bad Guys. He frobbed together the design in question, flew it out of the airport, landed on an outbound semi, and slipped the net.)
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Old 08-25-2021, 04:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: Silly Cars

We had a community bus that drove around the local area carrying passengers and mail. I started off with a minibus but was disappointed that the smaller plant's were massively inefficient but that the more efficient plant capacity far exceeded the minibus load limit.

I hit on the idea of using tow bars to connect a minibus with a plant and a second minibus without a plant. I liked the idea so much I got carried away and Wally Gator was born.

Wally Gator
Minibus (Tractor Unit)
Heavy Chassis with Streamlining
10 Solid Tires with HD Shocks
6 10 pt Wheelhubs
6 10 pt Wheelguards
Regular PP with PCs + Scs
4 Driver/Gunners each with 10pt comp armour and HR computers and PFE
Sloped Armour (260pts)
Sloped Metal Armour (8 points 2 per side - to stave off hand weapons)
3 Space Univ Turret with triple linked MGs
Extra Mag on 1 MG only
Bumper Spikes
8 Flechette Disch, 6 Tear Gas Disch
Towbar
10 pt Hitch Armour
Small Minisafe
Cargo 140lb


Minibus (Towed 1)
Heavy Chasiss with Streamlining
10 Solid Tires with HD Shocks
6 10 pt Wheelhubs
6 10 pt Wheelguards
Sloped Armour (260 pts)
Sloped Metal Armour (8 points 2 per side)
3 Space Univ Turret with triple linked MGs each with extra Mag
Laser Battery
Computer Gunner
Gunner Position with PFE and 10 pts CA
8 Flechette Disch
6 Tear Gas Disch
Towbar
10 pt Hitch Armour
Cargo 18 spc, 3580 lb

Minibus (Towed 2)
Heavy Chasiss with Streamlining
10 Solid Tires with HD Shocks
6 10 pt Wheelhubs
6 10 pt Wheelguards
Sloped Armour (260 pts)
Sloped Metal Armour (8 points 2 per side)
3 Space Univ Turret with triple linked MGs each with extra Mag
Laser Battery
Computer Gunner
Gunner Position with PFE and 10 pts CA
8 Flechette Disch
6 Tear Gas Disch
Towbar
10 pt Hitch Armour
Std Expl Hitch
10 pt Hitch Armour
Cargo 18 spc, 3580 lb

6' Van Trailer
C/A frame, Streamlining, 4 Solid Tires with HD Shocks
2 10 pt Wheelhubs
2 10 pt Wheelguards
Sloped Armour (156 pts)
FCGS with extra Magazine
FCGS with extra magazine
HDFOJ
Starshell Launcher
4 Flechette Disch
2 Tear Gas Disch
Cargo 3lb

Fully laden top speed is 110. Acc is 2.5/5 and HC is 1 as per usual. Total cost was $220K for the whole land train.

(Please forgive the format this was an excel version and doesn't have tidy formatting)

The idea was that each unit could fight independently if a tow bar was destroyed, the laser battery providing the juice to power turrets and weapon stations. There is no high energy draining equipment so it doesn't actually consume PUs. The use of a towbar is contentious, but not unequivocally illegal.

A gunner position was provided in each trailer (for either a company gunner or a trusted passenger working their passage) with computer gunner as back-up. If necessary the gunner position could be left vacant for an extra 150lb cargo and the tractor units gunners could operate the weapon systems in each trailer unit (if you don't agree with this happening as the two bar isn't the same as a trailer hitch then have two gunners in the cab converted into 4 handgun equipped passengers who can lend fire support instead).

In normal ops the "tractor" crew stations can override or lock out the trailer gunner stations (and physically lock the compartment) allowing the computer gunner to be tasked via commlink from the tractor or a passenger if the trailer becomes separated).

With passengers providing hand weapon support fire, this vehicle was assumed to be pretty much invulnerable to biker attacks (whilst it wasn't invulnerable it was more trouble than it was worth). Company policy was to run the occasional Q-trip where every passenger was a company hand gunner with ARs and HAVRs. No-one wanted to risk tangling with that one and it was hard to tell if that bus run was just a regular run or full of tooled up mercs (and in CW sometimes the regular passengers ARE tooled up mercs.

Last edited by swordtart; 08-25-2021 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 08-25-2021, 09:30 PM   #30
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Default Re: Silly Cars

Vehicle Design Left Unnamed At The Insistence Of Various Attorneys, Including Eon Productions, Universal Pictures, United Artists Releasing, and Danjaq:

Luxury, Extra-Heavy chassis, Heavy suspension, 250 cid engine w/VP Turbocharger and Supercharger, 25-gal Duelling Tank, 4 Puncture-Resistant tires, Driver, Passenger, Passenger, Passenger w/Ejection Seat, 2 Linked Concealed Machine Guns Front, Concealed Oil Jet Back, Concealed Smokescreen Back, Heavy-Duty Brakes, Antilock Brakes, Overdrive, Body Blades, No-Paint Windshield, Tinted Windows, Metal Armor: F8, L8, R8, B8, T1, U2, Cargo: [1 space, 62 lbs.], Acceleration 20, Top Speed 105 +20 w/Overdrive, HC 3, 6538 lbs., $29565

Cargo Space contains: Rocket Pack.

:)
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