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Old 06-25-2022, 07:23 PM   #21
Dalin
 
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

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Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
Perhaps another good idea would be giving a bonus against unholy diseases (ghoul/zombie bites etc.?) when it's used as a wound wash?
I like that idea. If holy water is something that well-prepared delvers should carry, I like to provide multiple potential uses for it.
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Old 06-26-2022, 06:39 AM   #22
jackcelso
 
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

final rest spell is almost end of the way spell for enemys and PCs!!!!

while dead you can be summomed to answer questions, put on a sour jar, infused in a golen body, resurect, bring back as a undead, posses a diferent body e etc...

final rest spell end all this possibilits and can be cast on any remains killed by you or not!!!

after a final rest spell only GM FIAT can bring someone back!!!
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:56 AM   #23
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

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after a final rest spell only GM FIAT can bring someone back!!!
RAW (because GURPS Magic is badly edited), it's a permanent spell not an instantaneous spell, so you just cast dispel magic and then proceed with necromancy as usual.
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Old 06-26-2022, 12:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

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RAW (because GURPS Magic is badly edited), it's a permanent spell not an instantaneous spell, so you just cast dispel magic and then proceed with necromancy as usual.
I guess that by "GM FIAT" he meant something like divine intervention - ie a ressurection (or undead) power with the "Cosmic" modifiee
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Old 06-30-2022, 11:15 AM   #25
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Thanks for the many answers. To comment on them en masse:


1) Why not just use acid: In the end, falls and other accidents sound like one of the biggest downsides of acid: there's a pretty good chance of vials breaking. Plus, holy water can have whatever miscellaneous beneficial uses the GM comes up with. (Along with emergency use as drinking water. Mmm, Dei-licious!)

Re the idea of using holy water in exorcisms, etc.: Definitely sensible. I recently came up with my own use for holy water & other "clerical consumables" as aids in "cleansing" tasks. Nothing fancy, or original: I just stole the idea from P. Dell'Orto's lovely Spell Components piece in Companion 3, treating consumables like holy water as a college component (replacing "college of spells" with "Turning, Exorcism, and other miscellaneous cleansing tasks"). I'll be tweeting the idea, and follow-ups to it, from tomorrow.


2) Splash vs armor: Thanks, all, for the reminder to reduce armor to 1/5 vs liquid grenades like acid or water. That makes some difference.

Even with that, though, there's a problem that a vial of acid or water isn't going to do any damage at all unless the target has DR 3+; otherwise, it breaks on the shield or falls to the ground to break, and Exploits 44 makes clear that "Corrosives and contact poisons must hit a person (not a shield or the ground) to work".

So against unarmored Dracula, it seems you really have to open the vial and splash him up close. Sounds easy enough to game – similar to a throw, but really short Range? I don't recall seeing any written rules for this sort of "splash a container of liquid" action, but I'll bet it's somewhere in the system...

Another thing about holy water as a weapon is this: Even if you manage to splash Drac with holy water or break a vial on him, 1d-3 dam isn't at all exciting. You'd probably do much better chucking rocks at him.

I'm thinking holy water dam vs vulnerable undead should be doubled (or made a neat 1d; close enough), just to make it interesting. Either that, or improvise more fun effects. ("A direct hit! The vampire claws at his face in pain, clearly stunned for a moment.")


3) Extreme resistance: I guess my question stems from the occasional rule that says "You can claim a bonus from A or B, but not both", and for some reason thinking that Higher Purpose + Resist Evil might be such a case. But as far as I can tell they stack just fine, and that's A-OK.

The results can be impressive. The undead hunter pre-gen in Companion 3 resists vampiric mental attacks, for example, with Will 15 + 3 for Higher Purpose + 3 for Resist Evil = 21!


4) @ confused: I see, it's the main character in the text interface of a roguelike game. Is this a specific game, though, or a common element in several games? Just curious.


5) Help me put this question to rest: I don't mind the idea that Final Rest has a huge fatigue cost. I'm guessing the intent is that the spell serve as the final, difficult task in the Big Quest to put away the ever-respawning Arch-Villain, Once And For All This Time. Sounds good to me.

Given that big cost, I was simply surprised to see the similar-ish Rest in Pieces as a cheap perk. But a close look shows significant differences, and, as far as I can tell, the 1-pt cost seems fine.


Thanks, all!
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

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4) @ confused: I see, it's the main character in the text interface of a roguelike game. Is this a specific game, though, or a common element in several games? Just curious.
Roguelike games are a category, but use of @ for the character avatar was moderately common for text-based games that used a map.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:24 PM   #27
malloyd
 
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

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Roguelike games are a category, but use of @ for the character avatar was moderately common for text-based games that used a map.
And for other ASCII art games. I'm pretty sure I recall that some of the clones of Star Trek that rebranded everything to avoid license issues used @ instead of E for your starship.
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Old 06-30-2022, 12:34 PM   #28
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

I think a big reason for using @ is because it's easily distinguishable from other characters on a VT100.
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Old 06-30-2022, 07:21 PM   #29
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

Armor specifically protects normally vs. acid, it's the major exception. Which makes sense because you primarily want to use multiple acid grenades to degrade armor.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:52 PM   #30
tbone
 
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Default Re: Why holy water? And other questions about holy-powered PCs

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Armor specifically protects normally vs. acid, it's the major exception.
You're right.

It's a grenade, and Exploits p44 has this general rule (bold is mine):

Quote:
Corrosives and contact poisons must hit a person (not a shield or the ground) to work. Read the description for effects, including whether any damage is one-shot or ongoing. Against physical damage, armor DR protects at only 1/5 value unless noted otherwise.
But Adventurers p114 provides the "noted otherwise":

Quote:
Ordinary acid inflicts 1d-3 corrosion damage; DR protects normally.
So: Corrosive liquids normally use DR/5, but acid is an exception that uses full DR. (I'll take heart in this confirmation that my past experiences applying DR normally vs acid were kosher play, not a case of forgetting to reduce DR.)

But again, it leaves us with the oddity that a vial of holy water won't even break on a foe unless the foe has DR 3+... but DR 3+ will completely protect against 1d-3 dam (and holy water won't corrode away the armor). So tossing vials of Divine Dasani seems pretty useless.

Perhaps it's best to say "yes, holy water burns undead like acid, but unlike acid vials uses DR/5 instead of full DR". Or just do away with the "DR protects normally" exception for acid and holy water alike. (1d-3 dam is pretty sad to begin with; let those liquids seep into armor!)
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