Post-Apo : Expired Medication & Food ?

[Dexion]

A question that I hadn't thought of in my Post-Apocalyptic universe and that the manga A journey beyond heaven made me think about. How do you deal with medication and food that has been expired for years?
Is there a book that deals with this topic?

[Varyon]

Extremely expired food is probably going to be one of stuff that wasn't sealed - in which case it's gone, digested by microbes or similar - stuff that was sealed properly but was sealed with microbes still inside - in which case it's just goop consisting of the now-dead microbes that consumed the food and used it to reproduce - or stuff that was sealed properly and didn't have any living microbes in it. The last one is probably still edible, but may have changed taste and texture (I recall Schlock Mercenary having a joke about 20th and 21st century military rations getting better a few centuries after expiration - the example was of the 1987 "boot heel" chicken patty becoming a fluffy pudding by 2430, and a mousse by 2890). The middle one is the wild card - it may be edible (albeit probably not very appetizing), or it may be poisonous. I'd probably go with the latter, but you could decide randomly.

Medicines typically lose potency once they expire, but it's a bit unpredictable how rapidly they will... meaning trying to adjust for that by upping the dosage can result in an overdose - and with some medications, the difference between "this dose has the desired effect" and "this dose will injure and/or kill you" can be uncomfortably small. Of course, if you want something quick-and-dirty, you could just treat expired meds as though the character had Unusual Biochemistry (B160). Heck, that may not even be terribly unrealistic if you assume the person administrating it is having to guess at the dose to account for lost potency.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Dexion

How do you deal with medication and food that has been expired for years?

There's only a fairly limited window where these questions won't be obvious.

For example, just a few days ago I made a cake for Christmas from a boxed mix that was 2 and 1/2 years past its' "best by" date. It tasted fine and nobody got sick from eating it. The layers didn't rise as much as usual but that just made for nice even layers. It did seem to dry out more quickly than a less dated mix cake might have.

So flour in a sealed container will last for years and probably a couple of decades. Sugar never really goes bad. Even if it clumps into a solid object you could take a hammer and bash it back into granules again.

The same for salt.

The vegetable oil I needed for the cake would last for years properly sealed but probably not decades. The eggs I used needed to be consumed within days without refrigeration and within a few weeks even with refrigeration.

Canned goods can last for years easily and some that went down with a sunken steamboat in the 1850s were still "safe" 150 years later(probably not very appetizing though).

Speaking of "not very appetizing", hard tack will last until vermin eat it or moisture breaks it down. Of course, humans can't really chew it until they either soak t in liquid or break it into little pieces with a hammer or rifle butt.

Medicine might be a more complicated question but prescription medicine is usually not stored in airtight containers anyway. 1 year after marked expiration date and i personally wouldn't be concerned. 2 years and I'd probably avoid it and 5-10 years probably anyone would. Most of it would very likely be ineffective and some might even make you sick.

So even one generation after the Apocalypse it's only the longest lasting foods items that are really usable and some of those you might prefer to feed to pigs or goats and then eat the livestock.

[Ashtagon]

Anything that is normally kept in a fridge (and continuously kept at that temperature) will either be sludge to be scraped off, toxic, nauseating to smell, or some combination of the above after a year (and probably sooner for most such items).

For frozen food, assuming the power is kept continuously (or you're in a subzero even in summer climate), the worst that will happen to the food is frostburn (the food gets dehydrated in the exposed sections, which affects texture and cooking qualities) and flavour changes. It will likely retain nutritional value over decades, although this has not been tested.

For shelf-stable non-sealed food (flour, breakfast cereals, dry pasta, and dried vegetables), it varies. I would expect dry goods in non-airtight containers to be good for up to a few months past use by dates. The biggest risk will be from vermin finding the food and from humid air affecting the food and allowing mould spores to develop. Note that these are typically made with a use by date that is 6-12 months from date of packaging.

(I had a bag of chocolate brownie mix ("just add water, mix, and bake") which was definitely off at two years past its use-by date even though it was stored in ideal conditions; there was a distinct nasty smell, and we chose to bin it rather than taste the cooked product.)

Canned goods have a theoretically unlimited shelf life (assuming the can is undamaged and it was manufactured/sealed in proper conditions). However, taste and texture will deteriorate over time.

(Last year, we threw out a can of treacle that expired in the late 80s. Aside from flecks of something on the surface [possibly dust that was in the air from when it was last opened, or bits of treacle that had truly dehydrated], it looked okay. Had we been desperate, we might have tried it. We were not desperate.)

Table sauces (also honey and syrups) that feature sugar and/or vinegar as primary preservatives will keep for a long time as long as they haven't been opened. However, they aren't known for their nutritional value. The biggest issue with honey is that it can crystallise; however, that doesn't affect its food safety.

In summary:

100 years: Canned goods only. And be prepared for disappointment.

10 years: Try your luck with table sauces, honey, and syrups. Also frozen food if the cold was on continuously.

1 year: Add dry shelf-stable food to the menu.

[mr beer]

Honey lasts effectively forever if in an airtight container. The sugar content is extremely high obviously but its also rather acidic, which increases its antimicrobial properties. The problem is that it's hygroscopic and as it becomes diluted by moisture, it loses these properties.

[mr beer]

Another 'food' that will last a very long time are unopened bottles of spirits and high alcohol content liqueurs. I don't have a good idea of how long the seal will last but assuming the bottle is out of sunlight and has relatively stable temperature, I think its reasonable to assume spirits will last decades.

[Dexion]

Thanks for your answers, that help me a lot.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by mr beer

Another 'food' that will last a very long time are unopened bottles of spirits and high alcohol content liqueurs. I don't have a good idea of how long the seal will last but assuming the bottle is out of sunlight and has relatively stable temperature, I think its reasonable to assume spirits will last decades.

Things like brandy and vodka in a sealed bottle stored in a dark place would last a thousand years and still be the same.

[Christopher R. Rice]

I wrote some quick rules for this on my blog.

[RyanW]

I recall reading a few years ago about the US military having some long forgotten medications in storage tested (I assume to see whether such stockpiles could still be of any value in a desperate emergency). As long as the seal was intact and the temperature hadn't gotten too extreme, they were safe and mostly effective decades after expiration.

There's also a YouTube channel that I saw a few times, though I can't remember the name, of a guy that opens old military rations and tries anything that isn't obviously ruined. Again, it's mostly about the integrity of the seal, and your willingness to eat things that are culinarily indistinguishable from the packaging.

In a way, you might be better off with very expired things than barely expired things. If something has been compromised for a week, you might not know. If it's been compromised for twenty years, it's probably pretty obvious.