Persistence is Futile: Penalties from injury

[ericthered]

In The Last Gasp (Pyramid 44) spending FP requires a roll vs. Will or suffer some "Stop moving" penalties. This roll specifies that:

Unhealed injury or pain always penalizes the Will roll to persist, and the GM might wish to uncap the IQ penalty for this roll

So this obviously refers to shock in part, as well as the pain condition, but how does injury effect it? a one-to-one penalty sounds a touch excessive, and doesn't scale well vs. elephants or giants. I've looked on the forums and through the books and can't seem to find anything. What is this "Injury" penalty? It seems that in the last gasp wounding someone is a great way to shut down their ability to use FP.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by ericthered

In The Last Gasp (Pyramid 44) spending FP requires a roll vs. Will or suffer some "Stop moving" penalties. This roll specifies that:



So this obviously refers to shock in part, as well as the pain condition, but how does injury effect it? a one-to-one penalty sounds a touch excessive, and doesn't scale well vs. elephants or giants. I've looked on the forums and through the books and can't seem to find anything. What is this "Injury" penalty? It seems that in the last gasp wounding someone is a great way to shut down their ability to use FP.

This is only for movement, if I recall? It's designed to represent your body telling you "please stop jogging."

I think the "uncap" thing refers to the line about stop assessing penalties at 0 FP (mid-page, p. 4, right column). So if you're deep into negative fatigue, but you're usually running at "no more penalties past -5," it's saying 'go farther," since PCs might easily have Will high enough to soak that roll and that might not be appropriate.

There's really no guidance for injury in the book; that got missed. I'd probably just look at "what percentage of HP are you down?" and scale that to -10 (and if you're at 0 HP or below you're rolling for KO each turn anyway; you don't need TLG to help not move here).

Final note: The Last Gasp was written six years ago, in a period of my writing I not-entirely-jokingly call "The Fiddle Phase."

The Last Gasp is a great concept; some sort of long-term fatigue and the concept of action points being rate-limiting for burst efforts are both good additions to certain games and work well in play, so say the folks that have used them. But the article could use a simplification pass.

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

I've long been confused that in Basic, injury doesn't cause any of the Pain afflictions. You can have your arm chopped off, and after the shock or stun is over you feel fine for the rest of combat?

[Plane]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

There's really no guidance for injury in the book; that got missed. I'd probably just look at "what percentage of HP are you down?" and scale that to -10 (and if you're at 0 HP or below you're rolling for KO each turn anyway; you don't need TLG to help not move here).

So basically equivalent to a longterm uncapped shock for B419's "High HP and Shock" except a universal -1 per 10% missing for all creatures and not just for those over HP 20?

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

I've long been confused that in Basic, injury doesn't cause any of the Pain afflictions. You can have your arm chopped off, and after the shock or stun is over you feel fine for the rest of combat?

Adrenaline blocks penalties from shock after 1 second, adrenaline wears off after HTx2 seconds (Partial Injuries in GURPS Martial Arts)) and then longer-term DX penalties appear.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

This is only for movement, if I recall? It's designed to represent your body telling you "please stop jogging."

The book explicitly describes the expected behavior if you fail this roll while fighting, so I expect it

I think the "uncap" thing refers to the line about stop assessing penalties at 0 FP (mid-page, p. 4, right column). So if you're deep into negative fatigue, but you're usually running at "no more penalties past -5," it's saying 'go farther," since PCs might easily have Will high enough to soak that roll and that might not be appropriate.

Oh! That makes sense. Thank you!

There's really no guidance for injury in the book; that got missed. I'd probably just look at "what percentage of HP are you down?" and scale that to -10 (and if you're at 0 HP or below you're rolling for KO each turn anyway; you don't need TLG to help not move here).

Ok, thanks for that. I think that will be very helpful. And it makes sense that its harder to fight through a wound. I'm reminded of the "You killed my father, prepare to die!" scene in the princess bride.

Final note: The Last Gasp was written six years ago, in a period of my writing I not-entirely-jokingly call "The Fiddle Phase."

The Last Gasp is a great concept; some sort of long-term fatigue and the concept of action points being rate-limiting for burst efforts are both good additions to certain games and work well in play, so say the folks that have used them. But the article could use a simplification pass.

Hey, we appreciate your work. And we appreciate you hanging out on the forums to show us the finer points of the fiddle. Thanks for the answers.

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Originally Posted by Plane

Adrenaline blocks penalties from shock after 1 second, adrenaline wears off after HTx2 seconds (Partial Injuries in GURPS Martial Arts)) and then longer-term DX penalties appear.

Thanks.

Still, DX penalties don't include the IQ, skill, and self-control penalties that result from pain afflictions.

[Plane]

Yeah aside from Affliction blasts I think there are some holds which can cause those but I forget what the technique is that does it. I need to do a combat test with some grappling to familiarize I guess.

[AlexanderHowl]

Since most of the injury caused by damage against living creatures is in the form of shock, it would make sense that injuries do not necessarily hinder future activities (unless they cause crippling, dismemberment, shock, unconsciousness, etc.). The basic rules are fairly grim to begin with it is quite easy for an average people with Brawling at 12 to beat a person into unconsciousness and/or death.

For example, it the above scenario, it would take the brawler an average of seven successful punches or three successful kicks (assuming they are wearing boots) to beat someone into unconsciousness and twice that many to beat someone to death. If the brawler has initiative and launches a surprise attack, an AOA (Strong) with Telegraphic Attack, they could kick for 1d+2 crushing damage (base 1d-2 thrust, +2 from AOA, +1 from Brawling at DX+2, +1 for boots) at an effective skill of 14. If the brawler kicked the leg of their opponent, they attack with an effective skill of 12 and would deal an average of 5.5 crushing damage, giving them a 50% chance of crippling the leg, causing automatic knockdown and possible stunning. Even if their enemy is not stunned, they are on the ground and will suffer a -4 to any attack against the brawler, meaning that the brawler could probably risk another AOA (Strong) with a Telegraphic Attack...

[Plane]

Isn't it possible to stand on one leg if you have something like a cane to hold you up?

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Shock only lasts 1 second, and then the pain vanishes and never returns. Even after combat, wounded characters never experience pain of any kind. A person who got their arm chopped off can sit patiently while being treated without moving or making a sound, because they're magically immune to pain. They can have a casual conversation as if nothing happened, while being treated. Then, with no pain meds whatsoever, they feel no pain at all during weeks or months of healing.

That's silly really strange and unrealistic.