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Old 12-31-2020, 08:57 AM   #1
Anth
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

Hi,
This is about the same campaign conversion i wrote about in the DFRPG-forum.

Now I need some help with specific abilities/powers.
This isn't normal DnD-powers.
We are talking special gifts/curses that the characters aquired during play.

Let's start with something simple.
I think I got most of it right, but I still have some questions, especially about enhancements cone and area effect.

We have two characters that can cast the spells Lightning Bolt and Cone of Cold respectively. Not as spells, but as supernatural powers 3 times a day.

DnD5:
Lightning Bolt, 3/day, 8d6 lightning dmg, hits everything in a 100' long times 5' wide path, save for half damage.
Cone of Cold, 3/day, 8d8 cold dmg, hits everything in a 60' long times 60' wide cone, save for half damage.

I figured that both are innate attacks.

Both lightning and cold are "burning", so 5 point/level.

First: GURPS only uses 6-sided dice, so 8d8 equals 10d6.
Second: DnD does more dmg than GURPS, so lets halve the dmg:
Lightning Bolt: 4d6.
Cone of Cold: 5d6.
(it's still much dmg in GURPS, but even in DnD it's certain death for low level characters to be hit by a lightning bolt or cone of cold).

"Save for half" is not att problem; as innate attack requires an attack roll, we don't need save.

3/day is limited use.

Convert feet to yds:
Lightning Bolt: 33 yds long * 2 yds wide.
Cone of Cold: 20 yds long * 20 yds wide.
Basic Innate attack is Max 100 yds which is longer, but 1/2D 10 yds is shorter. I think the two balance each other.
We keep the innate attack 100 yds for Lightning Bolt, but divide the distance by 2 for Cone of Cold.

Then the part I have problem with: "hits everything within the area"
The easiest solution seem to be GURPS Enhancement Cone for both powers.
Lightning Bolt: 100 yds long, 2 yds wide cone: +50 % +2*10 % = +60 %.
Cone of Cold: 50 yds long (-10 %), 20 yds wide cone: +50 % + 20*10 % = +250 %.
But the Cone of Cold becomes extremely expensive.

Is there any other way to get the effect "hits everything within the area"?
I tried the enhancement "area effect", but as I interpret it doesn't do the same thing.

I appreciate any suggestions how to build the powers.
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Old 12-31-2020, 09:28 AM   #2
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

An important thing in GURPS is to convert the concept rather than the mechanics. Don't fret over damage, just get an idea of what the end result would be and if this is acceptable to you. You may also want to adjust things so they work more in line with DF - your lightning bolt should probably be built with Arcing Surge, which treats any level of DR from metal as simply DR 1 (which is how lightning spells treat such DR in DF).

As for Cone of Cold costing a lot in GURPS, this is appropriate. One of the biggest things keeping GURPS characters alive is the Active Defense, and a wide cone will largely rob them of that, unless they happen to be at the periphery or are close to significant cover. This is because the only way to avoid an area attack is to either get out of the area or get behind cover, and both options call for Dodge and Drop (which also leaves the character prone, which leaves them at a marked disadvantage). Getting out of the way of the Lightning Bolt calls for the same, but at least with it you can simply jump to one side or another - a character near the middle of a Cone of Cold can basically do nothing beyond praying for a low damage roll.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:07 AM   #3
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
As for Cone of Cold costing a lot in GURPS, this is appropriate. One of the biggest things keeping GURPS characters alive is the Active Defense, and a wide cone will largely rob them of that, unless they happen to be at the periphery or are close to significant cover. This is because the only way to avoid an area attack is to either get out of the area or get behind cover, and both options call for Dodge and Drop (which also leaves the character prone, which leaves them at a marked disadvantage). Getting out of the way of the Lightning Bolt calls for the same, but at least with it you can simply jump to one side or another - a character near the middle of a Cone of Cold can basically do nothing beyond praying for a low damage roll.
We got hit with a cone of cold in the last DFRPG game we played that did Fatigue damage. It was brutal. A lot of fun abilities (magic, chi, extra effort) are driven by fatigue, and so it's a subtle kind of attack. Also, while many foes (and PCs!) have many HP, having a FP attack that goes against the typically 10-12 FP an individual has is brutal. Especially if armor doesn't protect.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:28 AM   #4
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
We got hit with a cone of cold in the last DFRPG game we played that did Fatigue damage. It was brutal. A lot of fun abilities (magic, chi, extra effort) are driven by fatigue, and so it's a subtle kind of attack. Also, while many foes (and PCs!) have many HP, having a FP attack that goes against the typically 10-12 FP an individual has is brutal. Especially if armor doesn't protect.
Ouch, yeah, that would be brutal. Granted, a PC with such an ability is going to pay quite the premium for it - base [10] per die for Fatigue, and IIRC +20% for Freezing (optionally), +300% for Irresistible Attack (less if armor not protecting is more conditional, like metal giving minimal/no protection but leather and cloth and the like insulating just fine), +50% for a Cone, and another +10% for each yard of width. That's likely over [50] per die!
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:37 AM   #5
Anth
 
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
An important thing in GURPS is to convert the concept rather than the mechanics. Don't fret over damage, just get an idea of what the end result would be and if this is acceptable to you. You may also want to adjust things so they work more in line with DF - your lightning bolt should probably be built with Arcing Surge, which treats any level of DR from metal as simply DR 1 (which is how lightning spells treat such DR in DF).
Sorry, I couldn't fins Arcin Surge. Could you direct me?
(the closest I could find was Enhancement Damage Modifier Surge)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
As for Cone of Cold costing a lot in GURPS, this is appropriate. One of the biggest things keeping GURPS characters alive is the Active Defense, and a wide cone will largely rob them of that, unless they happen to be at the periphery or are close to significant cover. This is because the only way to avoid an area attack is to either get out of the area or get behind cover, and both options call for Dodge and Drop (which also leaves the character prone, which leaves them at a marked disadvantage). Getting out of the way of the Lightning Bolt calls for the same, but at least with it you can simply jump to one side or another - a character near the middle of a Cone of Cold can basically do nothing beyond praying for a low damage roll.
Ah, then I understand.
It's still the players who build the powers, so it's up to them to decide the size of the con (how much they are willing to pay).
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth View Post
Sorry, I couldn't fins Arcin Surge. Could you direct me?
(the closest I could find was Enhancement Damage Modifier Surge)
GURPS Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, page 21. It's also apparently in GURPS Psionic Powers, pages 19-20. If you don't have either volume, I think it's something like +100% or +150% and, as noted, makes metal armor only grant DR 1 against it.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:48 AM   #7
Anth
 
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
We got hit with a cone of cold in the last DFRPG game we played that did Fatigue damage. It was brutal. A lot of fun abilities (magic, chi, extra effort) are driven by fatigue, and so it's a subtle kind of attack. Also, while many foes (and PCs!) have many HP, having a FP attack that goes against the typically 10-12 FP an individual has is brutal. Especially if armor doesn't protect.
I like this idea.
In fact it's more logical that cold does FP dmg, than HP dmg.
But I can't figure how to build the power.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:52 AM   #8
Anth
 
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
GURPS Power-Ups 4: Enhancements, page 21. It's also apparently in GURPS Psionic Powers, pages 19-20. If you don't have either volume, I think it's something like +100% or +150% and, as noted, makes metal armor only grant DR 1 against it.
Thnx, I have Psionic Powers.

I only looked in GURPS Powers, didn't think of Psionic Powers.
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Old 12-31-2020, 10:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

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Originally Posted by Anth View Post
I like this idea.
In fact it's more logical that cold does FP dmg, than HP dmg.
But I can't figure how to build the power.
You use Innate Attack (FP) and Hazard (Freezing). I think the hazard is +10% or +20%. It will be expensive as all hell, but it will be deadly.
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Old 12-31-2020, 11:12 AM   #10
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Lightning Bolt & Cone of Cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Ouch, yeah, that would be brutal. Granted, a PC with such an ability is going to pay quite the premium for it - base [10] per die for Fatigue, and IIRC +20% for Freezing (optionally), +300% for Irresistible Attack (less if armor not protecting is more conditional, like metal giving minimal/no protection but leather and cloth and the like insulating just fine), +50% for a Cone, and another +10% for each yard of width. That's likely over [50] per die!
It was an emanation from a trap/idol/thing, so "point values need not apply."

Spectacular area denial weapon.
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