More TL8-9 weapon ideas

[Nightrider_88]

Hello again.
In attempt to evade thread necromancy, I decide to start new one.
So. Here is more ideas of TL8-9 ammo.

Enhanced APDU rifle rounds.
Based on Aeroshell-like technology https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102016121558A1/en
with penetrator made of Stakalloy - is the new evolution of DU penetrators from the traditional Staballoy. It replaces the molybdenum content with niobium and vanadium.
It is more machinable and may have some other advantageous properties.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6726876B1/en
That should get damage close or more than basic TL9 APEP

We have a couple options. like self-sharpening "liquid metal" Tungsten, I could see a polycrystalline diamond-tipped liquid metal penetrator having considerable merit.
A combination of initial penetrator hardness and sectional density....

Next. Is oversized rifle grenades. The Olin Excelsis is a representation of some hush hush talk regarding a .50 caliber AT rifle grenade. It's a semi-fictional weapon, so we just have estimations of around 1,200mm RHAe penetration and a weight of a few kilos.
The Olin Excelsis, in other words, is meant to simulate a type of rifle grenade which has been rumored to exist on the internet, would plausibly have reason to exist, but is otherwise rather classified and hasn't been disclosed to the public. It's Wt about 9 lbs.

Third is "Toothpick" 40mm EFP grenades. Very spooky and obscure stuff, probably with very high L/D ratio tantalum penetrator. It deals 200mm of RHA penetration.
We can't write off it as impossible but it's hard to find a second source on the matter.
Anyways, same technology can be extended to LAWs, rifle grenades and such.
Improved version would use DU liner instead of tantalum.

[clu2415]

I can’t find references to “Olin Excelsis” or “toothpick” 40mm grenades. Tantalum explosively formed projectiles are conventional enough to make it into Popular Mechanics 4 years ago. 40 mm grande launchers don’t have a terribly long range. You probably want more stand-off distance if you need an EFP to destroy your target.

What is so exciting about this rifle grenade?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Nightrider_88

Enhanced APDU rifle rounds.

Stakalloy sounds more like something that might make the rounds a bit cheaper (less costs for machining the rounds), or cheaper to make match-grade. The Aeroshell is somewhere between APDU and APDSDU in function (it has something of a discarding sabot, but it discards it on impact rather than upon leaving the barrel), but mechanically is probably indistinguishable from APDU.

Originally Posted by Nightrider_88

We have a couple options. like self-sharpening "liquid metal" Tungsten, I could see a polycrystalline diamond-tipped liquid metal penetrator having considerable merit.
A combination of initial penetrator hardness and sectional density....

If they work out, these are likely to be functionally similar to APDU, APDSDU, or APDSFSDU, depending on how the bullet itself is designed. The difference from DU is a lack of an incendiary follow-up, and being less toxic (due largely to the penetrators no longer being radioactive).

Originally Posted by Nightrider_88

Next. Is oversized rifle grenades. The Olin Excelsis is a representation of some hush hush talk regarding a .50 caliber AT rifle grenade. It's a semi-fictional weapon, so we just have estimations of around 1,200mm RHAe penetration and a weight of a few kilos.
The Olin Excelsis, in other words, is meant to simulate a type of rifle grenade which has been rumored to exist on the internet, would plausibly have reason to exist, but is otherwise rather classified and hasn't been disclosed to the public. It's Wt about 9 lbs.

Could be an option in a conspiracy game or similar. 1200 mm RHA penetration is around 47.25", or 3307.5 points of damage (DR 70 per inch of RHA). Considering HEAT (which I assume this is) has an armor divisor of 10, that implies 9dx10 (10) cr ex, probably with a linked 6dx10 cr ex.

Originally Posted by Nightrider_88

Third is "Toothpick" 40mm EFP grenades. Very spooky and obscure stuff, probably with very high L/D ratio tantalum penetrator. It deals 200mm of RHA penetration.

200 mm is around 7.85", or 549.5 points of damage. Considering EFP gets an armor divisor of 2, that implies 8dx10(2) pi; there aren't enough examples in HT to figure out the damage of the linked explosion.

[thorr-kan]

I was on a wiki-walk for less-than-lethal weapons, when I stumbled across the following image:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...1_img_2865.jpg

(In particular, I was looking for a multi-shot TASER or its equivalent.)

A bit of research led to the following link:
http://www.jiunan.com.tw/en/defense/stungun-x1.html

It's sales material. And any "modular" weapons is going to be less effective than a dedicated one. But this seems like something you would find in the hands of a PC.

[clu2415]

Originally Posted by thorr-kan

(In particular, I was looking for a multi-shot TASER or its equivalent.)

Check out the Taser XREP. It’s a 12 gauge shotgun cartridge that launches a mini Taser projectile.

[thorr-kan]

Originally Posted by clu2415

Check out the Taser XREP. It’s a 12 gauge shotgun cartridge that launches a mini Taser projectile.

Yup, that came up in my research. It was one of the things I was looking for.

I came up with the idea independently, but it's one of those *blindingly OBVIOUS* ideas. So I knew somebody had come up with it first. I just hadn't ever heard of it myself.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Nightrider_88

Hello again.
Enhanced APDU rifle rounds.
Based on Aeroshell-like technology https://patents.google.com/patent/DE102016121558A1/en

That patent just described a slight variation on your standard APHC rifle or cannon round, and is claiming it's a patentable idea. It's also a bad idea if long-range performance is desired, because it combines the light weight of a dart with the high cross section of a full-bore round.

...with penetrator made of Stakalloy - is the new evolution of DU penetrators from the traditional Staballoy. It replaces the molybdenum content with niobium and vanadium.
It is more machinable and may have some other advantageous properties.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US6726876B1/en
That should get damage close or more than basic TL9 APEP

'EP' is assumed to be an alloy that performs like DU without leaving behind toxic dust, etc. That's it.

Next. Is oversized rifle grenades. The Olin Excelsis is a representation of some hush hush talk regarding a .50 caliber AT rifle grenade. It's a semi-fictional weapon, so we just have estimations of around 1,200mm RHAe penetration and a weight of a few kilos.
The Olin Excelsis, in other words, is meant to simulate a type of rifle grenade which has been rumored to exist on the internet, would plausibly have reason to exist, but is otherwise rather classified and hasn't been disclosed to the public. It's Wt about 9 lbs.

Why would you want to fire a rifle grenade from a .50? And at 9 pounds it's not going very far without having so much recoil nobody will be willing to fire it. It's also heavy enough that you may as well carry some kind of light anti-tank rocket/recoilless, and have yourself a decent range. As for the performance, that's reasonable for a modern LAW warhead. The newest LAW warhead in HT is about 20 years old, so it's not surprising they don't get that performance - also they are actual fielded weapons, so the stats aren't so likely to be from some marketing brochure.

Third is "Toothpick" 40mm EFP grenades. Very spooky and obscure stuff, probably with very high L/D ratio tantalum penetrator. It deals 200mm of RHA penetration.
We can't write off it as impossible but it's hard to find a second source on the matter.
Anyways, same technology can be extended to LAWs, rifle grenades and such.
Improved version would use DU liner instead of tantalum.

This is far outclassed by the 40mm shaped charge in UT (though it out-performs the 40mm SEFOP in UT), and scaled up to even 100mm or so, it doesn't compare well to existing 100mm HEAT warheads. Note that the statement in HT that EFP rounds are no affected by reactive armour is not correct. They aren't affected by early designs that also didn't affect long rods, but modern reactive armour does, and works vs EFP rounds as well.

EFP rounds are interesting because they are well-suited to top-attacks and stand-off attacks (as from mines, etc.), not because of their amazing performance. Also, from a 40mm round (or smaller) they start having issues with performance because even modern fuses take up a fair bit of space in such small rounds, so there's not much left for the warhead itself.