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Old 12-06-2011, 03:24 AM   #11
Kuroshima
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Default Re: CM (No Mental Separation) = ATR (Mental only)?

Well, my (unofficial) ruling on CM and ATR (they both come into play in my DF game) is that CM gives you parallel processing, while ATR gives you faster processing. You can't use CM to speed up something that required X Concentrate maneuvers (this is a change from the RAW), but you can use ATR for that. However, you can use CM for things that require continuous concentration, and still keep normal actions going, as ATR will give you the same result for more resources expended.

When combined, ATR gives you two consecutive maneuvers. Each maneuver can be any legal maneuver. On top of that, in parallel with each maneuver, you get an extra mental maneuver.

This means that you could run for two seconds (two move maneuvers) while concentrating on a cast time 2 spell (two concentrate maneuvers) in a single turn. You could also concentrate in two distinct spells. You could not employ all 4 concentrate maneuvers to cast a cast time 4 spell though.

I'm considering giving CM a small limitation to represent this, but it's probably a -5% Nuisance Effect, and it would be hard for me to justify more than a -10% limitation.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: CM (No Mental Separation) = ATR (Mental only)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
Is Compartmentalized Mind (No Mental Separation, -20%) equivalent to Altered Time Rate (Mental maneuvers only, -60%??)?

Basically, is CM with that limitation any different from ATR limited only for mental maneuvers? Does it provide any other benefit? I think they are the same, just checking.
Think of it this way:

CM is the number of computer you have (past the first). The computers are self-sufficient, but their ability to communicate has finite limits (i.e. these are not multiple cores of one processor, but rather distant desktops with a slow connection by default).

ATR is the number of speed upgrades they have.

By default, CMs are good for running parallel processes, but can't be used to speed a single strictly serial process. They can be used to speed up a single paralleliseable process, e.g. multiplying a series of pairs of numbers. Some processes can be made parallel, others can't. E.g. you normally can't do it to Influence Attempts, but you can analyse two people with Body Language if you can focus your eyes on both of them simultaneously (Enhanced Tracking can help with that if people are in different corners of the room).

IIRC there was some talk by Kromm that it is a Feature to change non-separated CMs from strictly parallel to strictly serial, but don't take my word for it.

Also, it is the GM's job to decide if things like casting magic can be parallelised.

Regarding Powers, every parallel compartment gets a separate instance of powers. E.g. Mind A TK-lifts this truck and Mind B TK-lifts that one. However, if they combine powers, they must combine their BLs of their TK, not their raw TK levels. This paragraph is pretty official.

----------------------------------------
Regarding you original question:
CM (No Mental Separation) = ATR (Mental only)?
Is not a proper question because ATR (Mental Only) does not have an implicit conversion to a boolean.
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Last edited by vicky_molokh; 12-06-2011 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:49 AM   #13
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Default Re: CM (No Mental Separation) = ATR (Mental only)?

CM is basically the mental version of Duplication. Does ATR apply to all dupes and does this multiply the number of actions? Yes.

Same applies for ATR and CM. If you have 3 levels of CM and 1 level of ATR, you can get up to six mental actions per round.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: CM (No Mental Separation) = ATR (Mental only)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
I thought so too, otherwise ATR would be a way to get extra CM levels for free.
ATR gives you everything you can do in one round extra. It's not free (Standard ATR costs 100 points), but it is wholly inclusive. If you have Extra Attack 1 and standard ATR 1, you also get 4 attacks per round. If you have Extra Attack 1, CM and ATR 1, then you can do 4 attacks and two mental actions per round. If you also have Duplication 1, then both dupes can do all of this each round.

There is a reason ATR is one of the priciest advantages in the book.
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