Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-24-2020, 01:28 PM   #1
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Dark Vision (60 ft.)

A classic in certain other games is the range-restricted sense - Darkvision 60 ft. Infravision 30 ft. etc. How much of a limitation should this be? I'm tempted to use the SSR table in some way, but I'm not sure how.
__________________
“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2020, 05:03 PM   #2
Sam Baughn
 
Sam Baughn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and some other bits.
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

Power-Ups 4 has 'Increased Range, Line of Sight'. It seems like you should be able to 'reverse engineer' that to turn an advantage which normally has LoS range into one with a fixed maximum range. Since it is a +0% enhancement to change from a 2,000 yard range to line-of-sight range, we can extrapolate that into it being a -0% limitation to go the other way, after which you should be able to add 'Reduced Range' as normal.
Sam Baughn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2020, 05:16 PM   #3
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

The Warp ability has a maximum range limitation which could be cribbed.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2020, 02:30 AM   #4
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

I thought about using the Warp mechanic, but it gives a -45% limitation for 60 feet, and that is much too severe.
__________________
“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2020, 12:07 PM   #5
Taneli
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

What's your typical maximum vision range? Take that, and then apply the reduced range limitation?

As an alternative, you could think about the various applications of vision, and the consider how various aspects of vision are lost as it's range decreases, and then apply that as a limitation.
__________________
[/delurk]
AotA is of course IMHO, YMMV.
vincit qui se vincit

Last edited by Taneli; 12-25-2020 at 12:13 PM.
Taneli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2020, 07:05 AM   #6
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taneli View Post
What's your typical maximum vision range?
NOAA (for aviation purposes) puts the average for the northeastern US as between 2-3 miles (winter and summer). 7+ miles is considered "unlimited" visibility in that community. So you might go with either 15,000 yards (range band -23) or 5,000 yards (-20) for a GURPSish maximum from which to start limiting.

But there's no doubt a dozen different sources with their own conventions for practical useful visibility to use as a base.
Anaraxes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2020, 04:33 PM   #7
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
I thought about using the Warp mechanic, but it gives a -45% limitation for 60 feet, and that is much too severe.
Actually, if you copy the text, it gives a -20% ((10 - distance penalty)*5%; distance penalty at 20 yards is -6) and no limitation beyond 100 yards.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2020, 02:18 AM   #8
RedMattis
 
RedMattis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

I usually use the Accessibility guidelines when creating new limitations like this.

In other words, how useful/often is this useful is this compared to full Dark Vision?

18 meters is far enough to be... mostly sufficient in unlit indoor situations, excepting cathedrals or long escape-tunnels etc. Useful almost all of the time: ~-10%

Outdoors it is a bit worse, but it won't hinder you much in a forest where visibility was poor to begin with. Useful almost all of the time: ~-10%

On an open field or long street where you want to identify and shoot at someone with a bow or gun it is much too short compared to the ranges you might choose to engage someone (up to 50 meters or so). It also doesn't let you spot faraway ambushes. Useful roughly half the time: ~-20%.

It is almost completely useless for spotting flying enemies or anything going on in the skies. ~-40%

I generally tend towards the higher values to encourage actually using limitations like this, so I think I'd go with -20% for Dark Vision limited to 18 meters. It is easy enough to work around the limitations, but it does meaningfully limit the character especially in situations outside of their control.
__________________
"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared"
RedMattis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2020, 05:57 AM   #9
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Baughn View Post
Power-Ups 4 has 'Increased Range, Line of Sight'. It seems like you should be able to 'reverse engineer' that to turn an advantage which normally has LoS range into one with a fixed maximum range. Since it is a +0% enhancement to change from a 2,000 yard range to line-of-sight range, we can extrapolate that into it being a -0% limitation to go the other way, after which you should be able to add 'Reduced Range' as normal.
I like this, although it does mean the shortest range you can have (without making use of the option to set it lower at no further discount) is 200 yards. In theory you could extend the table - in this case, 200 yards would be -30%, 100 would be -40%, 50 would be -50%, and so forth. Considering that requiring a character to touch something to be able to see it with Dark Vision would only be -35% (Melee, C, Cannot Parry), however, such pricing may be inappropriate.

EDIT: It occurs to me it might not be a horrible idea to change things up a bit here - instead of using Reduced Range, assume the "original" ability already had the range you're wanting, and apply LOS in reverse. 60 yards rounds down to 50 yards on the table, which is +50% as an Enhancement. Reversing this, instead of x1.5 the price is ~x0.7, or -30%. Have a table.
Code:
Range	Discount
<5	-50%
5	-45%
10	-40%
20	-35%
50	-30%
100	-25%
200	-20%
500	-15%
1000	-10%
2000+	 +0%
This still has the issue of being cheaper than Melee, but let's be honest - needing to touch a target to be able to see it in the dark is probably worth a lot more of a discount than -35%.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul

Last edited by Varyon; 12-26-2020 at 06:14 AM.
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2020, 06:03 AM   #10
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: Dark Vision (60 ft.)

I like RedMattis approach best so far. I think I'll go with that.
__________________
“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dark vision, limitation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.