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Old 11-26-2018, 04:25 AM   #21
evileeyore
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
Presumably the fire in a Fire Ball is being feeding off magic to remain burning until it impacts, and magic is guiding it in.
No it doesn't. Which is why a Fireball can cross a No Mana Zone.

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Another interesting cases would be Illusion Disguise, normally Magic Resistance won't effect this spell as it doesn't do anything to you, but apply Area Effect and things change.
No it won't. Not even a little.
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:16 AM   #22
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
No it doesn't. Which is why a Fireball can cross a No Mana Zone.
Actually it all depends on how Fireball is handled. If it is a magical ball of fire (ie powered by a fire elemental) it will go "poof" in a NMZ and not hit the target.

The FAQ is not all that helpful in this as it simply says "Temporary and lasting spells are simply dispelled by a no mana zone (NMZ). Permanent spells and enchantments are merely suspended, and resume their normal function once they leave the NMZ."
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Actually it all depends on how Fireball is handled.
I've dove into this...

My ruling above is based on 3e... where Missile Spells weren't magical once created.

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Originally Posted by Roleplayer #20, June 1990
GURPS Q&A
What happens to spells that cross the boundaries of mana areas? For instance, what happens to an Explosive Fireball entering a no-mana area? Can a person using the Great Voice spell be heard 200 yards away by a person in a no-mana zone? What is the effective skill of a mage in a normal-mana zone casting a Lend Language spell on someone in a no-mana zone?

Rick Malavasic

A missile spell would continue across the boundary into a no-mana zone. No other spell or spell effect would cross into a no-mana zone.

When a spell is cast between different zones, both of which contain mana, calculate penalties as for the lower of the two zones. Thus, if either the caster or the subject is in a low-mana zone, the roll will be at -5. In the case of a spell like Great Voice, in which the "target" of the spell is the speaker, the location of the listener(s) doesn't affect the spell, as long as they are not in a no-mana zone.

A caster in a zone of very high mana has the benefit of fatigue-free casting (if he's a mage) and the problem that any failure will be very dangerous, regardless of where his subject is standing.

Steve Jackson
However, in the current FAQ missile spells are described as "bolts of magical force".

So it's possible that somewhere along the way thinking has changed. Someone should probably flag down Kromm.

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The FAQ is not all that helpful in this as it simply says "Temporary and lasting spells are simply dispelled by a no mana zone (NMZ). Permanent spells and enchantments are merely suspended, and resume their normal function once they leave the NMZ."
You have to decide whether a Missile Spell is Temporary or Lasting* in your game, however, neither definition will change the fact that they aren't Resisted and thus, not in any way subject to an "MR Field".

As an MR Field still only affects Resistible spells.

Now an Afflicted MR Field will affect the mage trying to cast if they are within the field.


* It's probably Lasting (since you don't maintain them and they have definitive triggers that end them), which means No Mana Zones are No Go Zones for missile spells.



Of course, I've also just come across a mistake in the FAQ:

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4.3.3 It seems missile spells are much more powerful than before. Is that right?
Yes. Now you can put up to [Magery * base cost of spell] energy each second in it, for one to three seconds; spell effect is multiplied by each multiple of the base cost. Note that the cost reduction for high skill only applies to the total cost of the spell. With skill 20, you can't cast a 6d fireball for free by concentrating for 3 seconds.

For example, say you have Fireball-15 (basic cost 1) and Magery 4. If you put four points of energy for three consecutive rounds, you would cast a 12d fireball at a cost of (12-1) = 11 energy points. For an Explosive Fireball (basic cost 2d), you could build a 4d one every seconds for seven energy points.

Note that throwing a spell is now done using the Innate Attack skill and is now considered a normal attack (contrary to Third Edition, where it was a free action). Furthermore, don't forget that missile spells can still be dodged or blocked. It could be more cost-effective to shoot 3d Fireballs every two turns than one massive 9d Fireball every four, only to have it dodged.

For non-missile spells, you can also put up to [Magery * base cost of spell] energy points in the spell when applicable, but it can't be built over time. This limit is there simply because these spells can't be dodged or blocked, and allowing many turns for building them would make them abusive. A 9d Deathtouch would be scary indeed!
They can't be Parried or Blocked... and only if they ignore armor. A Melee spell that doesn't ignore armor can be Blocked and Parried as normal. And they all can be Dodged.
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
So it's possible that somewhere along the way thinking has changed. Someone should probably flag down Kromm.
Hah, never mind, I found a Krommquote (in a thread I wouldn't have otherwise checked)...


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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Mana Damper prevents spells from being cast as easily (or at all, if you have enough levels of MD) within its area. This normally protects the user and those around him, but it could also be used offensively by moving so that an enemy mage is in the ability's area. In other words, when you cast a spell on somebody, you use his mana level or yours, whichever is lower. This means that if somebody with MD is your subject or affecting you with his ability, your spellcasting suffers.

Whether this is as good as Magic Resistance is rather subjective . . . three levels of MD might make high mana drop three levels from high to normal to low to none, but what about very high mana? What if somebody nearby has Mana Enhancer? Then you might only reduce the mana level a little, perhaps giving enemy casters a -5. At that point, I'd rather have Magic Resistance 5, as it's twice as good vs. Resisted spells!

On the other hand, MD protects against spells that MR doesn't affect, which is most spells not cast on a person. And MD protects one's possessions, which is always nice. MR 10 seems less useful if a Disintegrate spell can make your sword go away.

And note that neither advantage normally helps vs. Missile spells. Once created, Missile spells are just ordinary projectiles. In a perverse situation where a wizard wanted to cast a Missile spell right next to somebody with MD, his spell would indeed be affected . . . but if he managed to cast it, the missile itself wouldn't be affected at all.
Bolding is mine.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

In that case "magical force" probably just means force that is created by magic but functions like mundane force otherwise.

As for stuff like DR (Limited, Magic) still stopping them, Psi appears to work the same way. I think Psionic Power said something like damage from stuff thrown by TK is still stopped by DR (Limited, Psi)?

I'm not sure how far removed you'd need to be here, I guess 2 steps like as long as the power source is touching the thing that touches the thing that smushes you, it no longer counts as a magic/psi attack, but only 1 step removed and despite being removed enough not to be jammed, it still carries the flavor for DR purposes.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:20 PM   #26
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

That's problematic, evileeyore. How does the spell Acid Ball work and how does the perk physic guidance work?
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Old 11-26-2018, 11:58 PM   #27
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

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As for stuff like DR (Limited, Magic) still stopping them, Psi appears to work the same way. I think Psionic Power said something like damage from stuff thrown by TK is still stopped by DR (Limited, Psi)?
I just checked, and yeah it does. It also requires Malediction-Proof +50% in order to work versus Malediction attacks... whichs is counter to what Kromm has ruled.

So... eh. I wouldn't allow DR (Limited Psi, -20%) to affect a TK Bullet, but that's my games. Once it's left the TKer's 'psychic hands' it stops being 'psychic'. But again, that's me.



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Originally Posted by scc View Post
That's problematic, evileeyore.
In what manner?

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(A) How does the spell Acid Ball work and (B) how does the perk physic guidance work?
A - The magic creates a ball of acid (non-magical acid) and then hurls it at your foe.

B - It throws the Missile downrange using your skill with the spell rather than Innate Attack (Missile Spell). It's not like it's homing or requires further magic once launched.

Last edited by evileeyore; 11-27-2018 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 11-27-2018, 01:17 AM   #28
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

(A) So somehow this non-magical ball of acid is magically not dissolving my hands or coming apart when I throw it?

(B) Opps, I forgot exactly what that one did.
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Old 11-27-2018, 03:29 AM   #29
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

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(A) So somehow this non-magical ball of acid is magically not dissolving my hands or coming apart when I throw it?
Exactly.


You could surmise, if you wished, that magic remains in use to protect your hand while holding it, thus causing you to drop it if you entered a No Mana Zone.

Which is probably how I'd rule if I used No Mana Zones. But I don't.
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:54 PM   #30
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Default Re: Would Magic Resistence With Area Effect Protect Me From All Magic?

If as-statted "Limited, Psi" and "Limited, Magic" affect psionically and magically energy or matter, excluding magically created energy/matter which can successfully cross a No-Mana Zone from your DR might be a step further down in rarity providing a higher value limitation?
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