Diffuse + DR

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by darkgryfyn

Hi all, apologies for starting a new thread if there is already notes on this topic....

Would damage resistance 2 on top of the Diffuse advantage make a swarm which was invulnerable to damage? (excluding, of course, area of effect attacks)

Thanks for the help. I am totally new to this system, but I am excited to learn more about it!

No, but you can take DR 4 (Absorption, Healing only +80%) [36] to achieve this effect.

Edit: To make this more of a 'I simply restructure my fluid body after your attack passed through' ability rather than a 'I become more vital and energized the more you hit me' power, maybe slap some limitations on the Absorption enhancement to make it only for hp and only for damage caused by that attack.

I'd probably make it like this:

DR 4 (includes eyes +10%, Absorption, Healing Only [only hp -20%, only for same attack, -10%] +55%) [33]

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

So... no Damage Reduction Force Fields? How would you cost one if they were allowed?

Can you imagine any other kind of injury tolerance force fields? I can't since injury tolerance is all about bodily composition (apologies for ninja edit), and hence wouldn't allow it for damage reduction either.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by B9anders

Can you imagine any other kind of injury tolerance force fields? I can't, and hence wouldn't allow it for damage reduction either.

It would make sense for a field of invulnerability if you mix with Affects Others and Area Effect.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

No, that's actually one of the things specifically disallowed with IT(DR). You can use Cosmic to eliminate the "minimum 1 damage" part, but not to shuffle DR around. (And it wouldn't make sense -- DR protects you from the damage, while IT(DR) affects the amount of injury you take. Injury is always calculated after damage.)

So if you have IT(DR/1,000) and an attack does 4,000 points of damage after DR, you're going to take 4 points of damage no matter what enhancements you have.

What I believe you could do with injury tolerance however, is to take two levels of it with cosmic to reduce to two of damage you can take from diffuse (not consider area effect, although it obviously adds nice additional protection here) to achieve effective invulnerability against anything but area effect attacks. Not very cost-beneficial compared to the DR (absorption) model above though.

On a releated note, I am wondering where area effect attacks would fall on the scale of rarity as a limitation on damage reduction for those diffuse characters who want protection against that. Common, -40%?

[munin]

Originally Posted by B9anders

...I am wondering where area effect attacks would fall on the scale of rarity as a limitation on damage reduction for those diffuse characters who want protection against that. Common, -40%?

RPK's Insect Swarm (DF5, p. 9) has IT:DR (Accessibility, Not versus area attacks, -10%; ...) so Accessibility, Only versus area attacks would probably be -30%.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by lexington

It would make sense for a field of invulnerability if you mix with Affects Others and Area Effect.

mechanics-wise but not effects-wise. You are suggesting a force field that alters the bodily structure of those inside it to be more impervious to injury.

That's not how it works, any more than a force field that makes people inside diffuse. That would be an affliction with emanation and area effect (probably also persistent & mobile but I don't want to look up the exact mechanics for this right now) and still wouldn't accomplish what is being suggested.

To reduce damage before it hits the body, you need DR. That's the only mechanic available for this effect.

[munin]

Affects Others + Area Effect (without Force Field) allows you to grant the benefits of your advantage to others (not exceeding your Affects Others "level") with a Ready maneuver (p. P107). Affects Others is primarily intended for movement abilities, and defensive advantages with Force Field, but only advantages that let the user do something are explicitly forbidden, so IT:DR is a possibility (or even IT:Diffuse, especially since with Infiltration it becomes a movement ability).

However, the way that RPK applied the Requires IQ Roll to Injury Tolerance in the Damage Control ability (GURPS Psionic Powers, p. 75), requiring a roll each time you are hit, implies that Injury Tolerance is (or can be considered) a defensive advantage, so it would be fair to apply Affects Others + Area Effect + Force Field. To keep it affecting injury rather than damage, I would interpret the force field as changing the nature of the attack so that it is reduced by armor/DR normally, but then deals less injury to fleshy bits.

Either way, IT still wouldn't come before DR.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

So... no Damage Reduction Force Fields? How would you cost one if they were allowed?

Affliction (IT:DR) plus Area Effect...?

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by darkgryfyn

Hi all, apologies for starting a new thread if there is already notes on this topic....

Would damage resistance 2 on top of the Diffuse advantage make a swarm which was invulnerable to damage? (excluding, of course, area of effect attacks)

Thanks for the help. I am totally new to this system, but I am excited to learn more about it!

Injury Tolerance affects damage taken. Damage is defined as what an attack does, which can be reduced by DR and Injury is post DR. This does produce an oddity. An Injury Tolerance Force Field mixed with Body DR, OUGHT to be a cae where the Forcefield applies first and the DR afterwards.

IT DOES NOT.

Game mechanically you subtract the body DR first THEN adjust for the IT effect.

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by munin

Affects Others + Area Effect (without Force Field) allows you to grant the benefits of your advantage to others (not exceeding your Affects Others "level") with a Ready maneuver (p. P107). Affects Others is primarily intended for movement abilities, and defensive advantages with Force Field, but only advantages that let the user do something are explicitly forbidden, so IT:DR is a possibility (or even IT:Diffuse, especially since with Infiltration it becomes a movement ability).

However, the way that RPK applied the Requires IQ Roll to Injury Tolerance in the Damage Control ability (GURPS Psionic Powers, p. 75), requiring a roll each time you are hit, implies that Injury Tolerance is (or can be considered) a defensive advantage, so it would be fair to apply Affects Others + Area Effect + Force Field. To keep it affecting injury rather than damage, I would interpret the force field as changing the nature of the attack so that it is reduced by armor/DR normally, but then deals less injury to fleshy bits.

Force field doesn't really apply here.

Damage reduction might, might, be applicable for affects others+area effect (though I'd demand a really creative in-game explanation for that kind of effect), but a force field is a protective barrier, not a zone of transformation. That means whatever traits you apply to a force field applies to the barrier itself (and thus protects what it inside it), not to the people inside per se.

Two people shooting at each other inside a force field would get no protection from the force field.

Two people shooting at each other inside a "zone of body toughening" (IT:DR w/affects others+area effect) would get full protection because the effect is different.

So in sum, "To reduce damage before it hits the body, you need DR. That's the only mechanic available for this effect."

I realise this is starting to sound like anally retentive rules lawyering, but it should help to definitely kill the idea of 'damage reduction force fields'. Gurps uses DR for this kind of effect. Any area effect build with damage reduction emulates a different effect entirely.