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Old 08-26-2020, 03:59 PM   #21
maximara
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
IMO, Magic 4E was a rush job which ignored 10+ years of fan feedback regarding which spells were broken and how they should be fixed (GURPS Magic 1E was for GURPS 2E and came out in the late 1980s - 1987 or 1988, IRC). Many of the recommended fixes only happened when GURPS Magic was ported over to Dungeon Fantasy and then DFRPG.
4e Magic always struck me as rushed. My biggest issue was that it didn't adjust any spell for the fact Magery 0 was now part of the system rather an after the fact house rule.
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Old 10-05-2021, 08:57 PM   #22
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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Interesting. Thanks for the spreadsheet.

You should consider doing the Enchantment college spells, since there were some substantial changes. In particular, any enchantments dealing with PD (e.g., Deflect) went away.

As another project, consider comparing GURPS 4E spells to GURPS Dungeon Fantasy and DFRPG spells.
I updated the file with the 3E/4E differences for Enchantment and Divination spells.

There is also a new tab that lists the differences between 4E and the DFRPG.
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Old 10-06-2021, 05:59 PM   #23
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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I updated the file with the 3E/4E differences for Enchantment and Divination spells.

There is also a new tab that lists the differences between 4E and the DFRPG.
Great resource. Added the link to the GURPSwiki on GURPS Magic page

You may want to look at the Magic Item Catalog which gives snapshots of some of the Magic items 1-3, other Classic material and the Fantastic Treasures supplements from the 1980s. There are some spells buried in those that didn't appear in either Magic or Grimoire.

Powerstone Recharging Rack is one such spell. Also Magic items 1-3 is where the Mana Vortex (turns area into no mana) and Mana Pool (boost mana) quirks come from.


On a side note it should be mentioned that Ritual Magic got a total overhaul; Classic's is a totally different thing from 4e core version.
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Old 10-08-2021, 07:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

Another difference is going from Sterilize to Remove Contagion. The former (Third Edition) would work on living bodies--but also killed friendly microorganisms, causing damage. The latter (Fourth Edition) can't be used to remove contagion from living creatures.
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Old 10-09-2021, 07:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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Another difference is going from Sterilize to Remove Contagion. The former (Third Edition) would work on living bodies--but also killed friendly microorganisms, causing damage. The latter (Fourth Edition) can't be used to remove contagion from living creatures.
Draw Power was so abusive as originally written that it got changed in Classic. Though 4e came up with something nearly as insane - Wild Mana.

Of course not having the spend energy on any of your spells is offset by having high enough skill you don't make a critical failure.
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Old 10-09-2021, 08:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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[. Though 4e came up with something nearly as insane - Wild Mana.

Of course not having the spend energy on any of your spells is offset by having high enough skill you don't make a critical failure.
Wild Mana is in 3e. Celtic Myth to be precise.

Also, there is no level of Skill that will prevent critical failures. Skill below 16 doesn't reduce them at all.
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Old 10-09-2021, 11:58 PM   #27
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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Another difference is going from Sterilize to Remove Contagion. The former (Third Edition) would work on living bodies--but also killed friendly microorganisms, causing damage. The latter (Fourth Edition) can't be used to remove contagion from living creatures.
I have Sterilize listed on the 3E-only spells tab. I agree that Remove Contagion is the replacement for most of the non-living being uses, but their differences are large enough that I felt fine just listing it as not returning in 4E.

I see your point though, I could have listed it having large differences with a different name. The magic item description's being the same is the giveaway that it was the intended replacement.

Shame though, Sterilize seems like a neat spell that isn't abusable but adds some flavor to people who know how to cast it.
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Old 10-10-2021, 02:58 AM   #28
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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Wild Mana is in 3e. Celtic Myth to be precise.
Like Classic Science! and 4e Science!, Classic Wild Mana and 4e Wild Mana there are different things. Thought they are closer than than the other two are.

Classic Wild Mana: allow one to cast any spell in 1 second using only 1 energy. "All spell successes are critical successes, and all failures are critical failures." (Classic Celtic Myth 80)

4e Wild Mana: "any success on a spellcasting roll counts as a critical success, and costs 0 FP, while any failure is treated as a critical failure, with the spell’s full normal energy cost."

So under 4e Wild Mana spell casting time is still based on skill level and a critical failure costs the spell’s full normal energy cost as well as the critical failure.

Per Very High mana (which with Mana Pool or Mana Generator can, in some settings, be boosted to Wild Mana) "actual critical failures produce spectacular disasters" which logically also applies to Wild Mana (either version)

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Also, there is no level of Skill that will prevent critical failures. Skill below 16 doesn't reduce them at all
I worded that like crap though in the 3-6 effective skill range (assuming any wizard is crazy/desperate to cast at that level) having higher skill does reduce critical failures.

What I mean is any wizard that works in either version of Wild Mana with any sense is going to go for Skill 16+ and, if it exists in the setting, Stabilizing Skill (not to be confused with Stable Casting).
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Old 10-10-2021, 05:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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Originally Posted by Overheat View Post
I have Sterilize listed on the 3E-only spells tab. I agree that Remove Contagion is the replacement for most of the non-living being uses, but their differences are large enough that I felt fine just listing it as not returning in 4E.

I see your point though, I could have listed it having large differences with a different name. The magic item description's being the same is the giveaway that it was the intended replacement.

Shame though, Sterilize seems like a neat spell that isn't abusable but adds some flavor to people who know how to cast it.
Artillery Spells has a spell called Disinfect, which is described as an extreme version of Remove Contagion that damages. I don't know 3e magic, but it might be very equivalent to Sterilize.
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Old 10-12-2021, 12:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Differences between 3E and 4E Magic spells

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I have Sterilize listed on the 3E-only spells tab. I agree that Remove Contagion is the replacement for most of the non-living being uses, but their differences are large enough that I felt fine just listing it as not returning in 4E.
I see your point. It's something of a judgement call as they are similar but also quite different.
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