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Old 01-03-2015, 07:17 AM   #21
Turgul
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

Helper is referred as the other munchkin in the combat with with you. Any assistance you receive via one shot cards is not help.
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Old 01-03-2015, 04:29 PM   #22
Shredhed
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmanssur View Post
I know this discussion was sometime ago, but my group had a long discussion yesterday about this cards and the situation.
The scenario we had is that:
1) definition of help or asking for help
- For me, help means with combat strength and/or cards in hand. Mainly because during the game you can ask for "help" asking for someone to support you with cards bonus and not necessery with combat points. So help is just a positive support.
For sure it is clean that only one player can contribute with combat strength, so adding his level to yours, but once there is no limit of players regarding supporting with cards (in hand) i understand that you can have more the one helper in the combat.
Otherwise you couldnt have more than one person helping in any scenario.
2) the card: kneepads of allure
- It is not mentioned in the card about the way that the helper should support, if it is with combat strength or cards. So for me should be that the player must help with all his possibilities to win the combat once he can not refuse it.

So, or the definition of help is more detailed in the manual regarding cards or modify the written on the card. Because another player could be obligated to support only with cards so not exceeding the rule of "only one player can help you adding his combat strength.

Waiting for your comments. Thanks
First problem is with YOUR definition of help. The game rules clearly state what having/being a helper in combat means and that there can only be one. You can't change the game's definition of help in combat in order to force someone to use cards for you (when using the kneepads).

The kneepads say that other people can not refuse your request for help, as in, to join your combat. No where does the card say that they have to use one shots or any resources or that they even have to try to win at all. Only that they can't refuse your request for them to join your combat (assuming the level requirements are met). They can enhance the monster you're both now facing if they so choose. They could unequip items after their turn so their contribution is lower when forced to help.

So, to recap, you can only force one person to join the combat, they don't have to do anything more than that, and no one else can be forced to do anything for you.

Last edited by Shredhed; 01-03-2015 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 01-03-2015, 05:39 PM   #23
FireTigeris
 
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Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

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Originally Posted by Shredhed View Post
First problem is with YOUR definition of help. The game rules clearly state what having/being a helper in combat means and that there can only be one. You can't change the game's definition of help in combat in order to force someone to use cards for you (when using the kneepads).

The kneepads say that other people can not refuse your request for help, as in, to join your combat. No where does the card say that they have to use one shots or any resources or that they even have to try to win at all. Only that they can't refuse your request for them to join your combat (assuming the level requirements are met). They can enhance the monster you're both now facing if they so choose. They could unequip items after their turn so their contribution is lower when forced to help.

So, to recap, you can only force one person to join the combat, they don't have to do anything more than that, and no one else can be forced to do anything for you.
I agree the knee pads force you to add your -combat strength- to the fight, it does not stop you from using one shots for the monster, buffing the monster, or adding monsters or some way making it a very bad idea to force you to help in the future.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:23 AM   #24
mmanssur
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

So, what you are saying is that if someone support you with cards in the combat this is not help? Doesnt count as help.... The player is giving bonus with cards or modifing positively the scenario to you but this is not considered help on this game.

If this is right For me still not really strange/bizzar. Means that in the combat, besides the one that is helping you with combat strength, you will be discussing with others players asking for contribution and not help.
Help is help in a game and we are discussing here the meaning of help.
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Old 01-04-2015, 04:27 AM   #25
mmanssur
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

Just another point, following what i have written on my first comment, the card should have its description modified and instead of "help" in the text should have "combat strength".
It would make it more clear than discuss about definition o the word "help"
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Old 01-04-2015, 08:35 AM   #26
Bampop
 
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Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

It's just a matter of there being a specific definition of "Helper" within the game rules which is someone joining the Munchkin side of the fight to add their Combat Strength.

To keep it straight in my head, I've always referred to people outside the fight who choose to play one-shots in my favor as "aiding" me in combat. It holds the same meaning, but not in official game terms.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:40 AM   #27
Shredhed
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmanssur View Post
So, what you are saying is that if someone support you with cards in the combat this is not help? Doesnt count as help.... The player is giving bonus with cards or modifing positively the scenario to you but this is not considered help on this game.

If this is right For me still not really strange/bizzar. Means that in the combat, besides the one that is helping you with combat strength, you will be discussing with others players asking for contribution and not help.
Help is help in a game and we are discussing here the meaning of help.
As Bampop said, there's a specific definition of "helper" in this game. If someone is a helper in combat, they are IN the combat, they are in danger of losing and possibly facing the bad stuff.

If someone plays a one shot item, even to give you a combat bonus, they are not in the combat, they do not have to run away and they don't face any chance of bad stuff.
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:32 PM   #28
Krugath
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

Short recap:
You may only force one player to help as rules state
The helping player may still play curses or other bad things against you
You may not win the game from a combat that you force a player to help with

My question.. If you force a player to help and then somebody else plays a wandering monster and it would cause you to gain the winning level would you still be able to defeat the monsters and gain the treasure but forfeit the levels?
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:45 PM   #29
MunchkinMan
 
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Default Re: Kneepads of Allure

You can't forgo the level(s) you might earn from winning. In fact, you can't ever decide NOT to take the rewards you've earned.

Basically, the allure wears off, and the helper is free to decide if he will remain in the combat or leave (without penalty).
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