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Old 03-16-2022, 03:58 AM   #1
Expy
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Default Rated ST and Bows

I was reading over adventurers last night, brushing up for another go at running an online game and making some pregens to knock the rust off when I noticed a little rule in the equipment section and it went something like:

'crossbows and bows use their own rated ST for range and damage, the ST listed is simply the minimum required to use one. For crossbows, rated ST higher than the users own means longer reloading, for bows treat high rated ST as if you were wielding a weapon with low ST'
'You can use weapons with a higher ST rating than you own, with a cumulative -1 to weapon skill per missing ST and an additional FP cost at the end of combat also equal to missing ST'

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that makes 'greatbows' rated for 19 ST (2d-1 thrust) usable for a starter heroic archer with say 14ST, assuming you're ok with the -5 to hit and 5FP cost per fight? I think that could make for a cool character; Very Fit to offset some of the FP tax, Weapon Master to add boatloads of flat damage, Telescopic Vision to offset some of the penalty? Flavoured as a half-ogre mammoth hunter from the freezing plains or something. You could stack a lot of raw damage that way.

I've seen this rule used all the time for crossbows, but never for bows. Definitely a bit different from the usual Scout thing of machinegunning arrows through eye sockets! If it is supposed to work like I think it does anyway. What do you guys think?

Last edited by Expy; 03-16-2022 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 03-16-2022, 08:11 AM   #2
zoncxs
 
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Default Re: Rated ST and Bows

Yup, sounds good to me.

A scout with ST 13, bow skill 18, strongbow perk, weapon master bow, and an elven composite bow with a ST rating of 22 would have a -5 to skill and 5 FP more at the end of combat and do 2d+7 imp damage.
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Old 03-16-2022, 09:04 AM   #3
Kromm
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Default Re: Rated ST and Bows

Roughly: To get +1 damage with a bow, add +2 to its ST, because on average, +1 to thrust damage calls for +2 ST. Thus, if you're using a bow strong enough to give +1 damage relative to what your ST would give, you're using one that requires +2 ST relative to yours, and so -2 to skill. Functionally, then, each +1 to damage is -2 to skill. Since skill levels out at 4 points/level and for Bow has no uses beyond hitting things with arrows, you're "giving up" 8 points per +1 to damage.

That's an intended tradeoff. You could also get +1 to damage by taking Striking ST 2 for 10 points and using a bow that fits your ST + Striking ST. So, that's 10 points per +1 to damage . . . but it benefits all your weapons, not just your Bow, and doesn't eat your FP.

Overall, then, you're looking at getting your damage at 80% of its usual price in return for having it work only with one specific class of weapons, and at a FP cost. A 20% discount for that is, if anything, ungenerous – I wouldn't worry much about it being unbalanced!

I'd probably set the limit on how far you could go with this using FP, of all things. Someone with FP 12 could burn at most 12 FP . . . so, their hard cap would be their ST+12, for -12 to hit and 12 FP at the end of each fight. They'd get an effective +6 damage out of that, which is cool and all but I'm wondering if they'd ever hit. And of course there's "and then you pass out and don't get to loot" at the end of the fight.
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Old 03-16-2022, 09:07 AM   #4
ArchonShiva
 
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Default Re: Rated ST and Bows

Absolutely. This is one of the more significant changes in DFRPG.

You already know about Weapon Master and Very Fit, but if you want to push it a bit:
Hour-long ST potions ($250) are much cheaper than DX potions ($700), but for this character will effectively be DX potions that give FP. You can probably afford to be under such a potion at nearly all times in combat.
If you're an elf, you can use uncharged Lend Energy scrolls on yourself. This lets you convert your power item FP into character FP.
If you're allowed to multi-class, Swashbuckler with Heroic Archer (e.g. by adding a Master Archer lens from 5 Easy Pieces) opens a ton more doors for you, at the cost of scouting proficiency.

I don't think I'd bother with Telescopic Vision, though. Extra skill cannot do much against enemy dodge, what you need is additional shots, which are incompatible with aiming. You'll likely have enough damage to Move and Attack, slip behind your foe, shoot at their center of mass and retreat to a safe spot.

Don't settle for a ST19 bow for too long. A ST35 bow is actually within reasonable reach once you get some money and character points; I've done it with a ST 10 character without adding points to Bow skill.
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Old 03-16-2022, 09:15 AM   #5
ArchonShiva
 
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Default Re: Rated ST and Bows

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
but I'm wondering if they'd ever hit.
I can attest that they'll hit. Zuljita, as GM, can attest that they hit.

There are a lot of things that add to an archer's skill; Just off the top of my head:
Acc +3
Accuracy (enchantment) +1
Weapon Bond +1
Balanced arrow +1
Bless +2
ST potion 1d6+2 (because Bless)
DX potion 1d6+2 (use Luck to reroll as needed)
Forest Guardian +4

And also *effectively* extra skill here:
Strongbow +2
Elven Bow +2
Striking ST +2

I usually get a Trademark Move for Attack: eye shots, because -9 can certainly still use a +1.


EDIT: It's +6 damage per -8 to skill, because Weapon Master.
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Last edited by ArchonShiva; 04-16-2022 at 02:43 AM. Reason: .
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Old 03-18-2022, 12:29 AM   #6
dcarson
 
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Default Re: Rated ST and Bows

And then give them Disadvantages like believing they are strong enough to use or that it is a family heirloom and won't use a different bow.
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