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Old 04-01-2021, 02:52 PM   #1
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default How to price ATR (AOD Only)

How would you price Altered Time Rate (Active Defense Only)?

This is the best way I can figure to create an advantage that allows you defend at the end of a turn no matter what, though the only situation I can think of when you wouldn't be able to defend at the end of your turn is All-Out Attack, but I'm sure there must be other situations.

But anyway, I'm looking to price an advantage that allows you to defend (once per attack, at normal defense score) when you All-Out Attack.

How would you do this?
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Old 04-01-2021, 03:07 PM   #2
Plane
 
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

I'm not sure if you could take All Out -25% to make ATR only usable with All-Out Attack, but if that were the case, subbing in AOD instead of AOA wouldn't seem overpowered.
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Old 04-01-2021, 03:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

I don't have time to work it out at the moment, but some heavily modified take on Duplication might get you there.
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Old 04-01-2021, 04:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

"One maneuver type only" is pretty limiting in my experience. I could easily see it being -50% or even more (look how cheap Extra Attack is compared to ATR). I think I've used -60% in the past and AoD can't stack with itself so it's not like you'd be buying a lot of levels of this. Considering that Flight is 40pts, I almost feel -60% might not be enough of a limitation.

Regardless of the price, I'd also take Standard Operation Procedure: Always uses AoD [of a specific type] so even in non-combat situations it's useful.
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Old 04-02-2021, 06:35 AM   #5
Varyon
 
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

Cosmic +50% on an Active Defense allows it to be used even when it's otherwise unavailable. I think such a defense would work even after an All Out Attack. See PU4 for the guidelines on how to build this.
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Old 04-02-2021, 12:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

Seeing as Compartmentalized Mind (No Mental Separation) is 40 points and grants an extra Maneuver (from a limited list) and Extra Attack (Multi-Strike) is 32 points and grants an extra action to a chosen specific Maneuver I'd lean toward 40 points but could be talked down to 35 with a strong argument.

I wouldn't build it off ATR (though I feel doing so would come pretty close to 40 points, I'm just too lazy to search for appropriate Limitations when CM is already such a close fit) or allow any Limited limitations, instead making a new ability based off CM.
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Old 04-02-2021, 01:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

Note that Compartmentalized Mind includes the additional benefit of the multiple compartments providing extra resistance to possession and mind control- Psionic Powers rates leaving this off ("No Mental Separation") as a -20% limitation. On the other hand, it's clear that not all maneuvers are equally valuable. An "Aim Only" ATR would obviously be worth less than either an "AoD Only" or "Concentrate Only" ATR, but I'm not sure how to rate All-Out-Defend Versus Concentrate. Assuming you have powerful concentrate-based abilties, a free Concentrate per turn is nothing to sneeze at. On the other hand, gaining the benefits of All-Out Defense while still being free to attack (or even All-Out Attack without consequence, depending on exactly how the GM lets the advantage play) turns you into a combat monster- I'd gladly take that rather than Weapon Master.

To come at the problem from another direction, treating +2 to a choice of defense as "+2 Enhanced Dodge with +2 Enhanced Parry and Enhanced Block as alternate abilities" would come to 36 points, so we can treat that as a lower limit for the purposes of discussion, with the "second chance to defend" option and an extra half-move per turn if you chose to boost dodge further increasing the value.
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Last edited by ravenfish; 04-02-2021 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 04-02-2021, 02:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

Yep. Sounds like this is pretty firmly circling 40 points from several directions.
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Old 04-02-2021, 04:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
But anyway, I'm looking to price an advantage that allows you to defend (once per attack, at normal defense score) when you All-Out Attack.

How would you do this?
I'd add an advantage that lets you gain the benefits of all-out attack (choose one of extra attack, +4 to hit, +2 damage, +1/die to damage; move half your speed before attacking) without the penalties, and describe it as all-out attacking. Somewhere in the 40 point range looks correct.
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Old 04-02-2021, 06:46 PM   #10
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: How to price ATR (AOD Only)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philomath View Post
Sounds like this is pretty firmly circling 40 points from several directions.
Just as another data point, a PU4-style Cosmic Dodge for an average human (Basic Speed 5) would be 37.5 points; Cosmic Parry (One Skill) or Cosmic Block would be 15 at skill 12; Cosmic Parry (All) would be 30 at DX 12; throw those all into an AA group (not exactly appropriate, but just as a way to eyeball the discount for overlapping utility) and you get 50 points.
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