Supernatural Durability With No Weakness

JCurwen3 · 04-10-2011, 01:12 PM

Is it acceptable to use Cosmic +50% to remove the "weakness" from SD?

It still wouldn't be invulnerability (which is frowned upon RAW), as they can be slowed down with HP damage, and can be killed with a single attack that does 10xHP damage.

I just ask because I've seen uses of Cosmic +50% or more to allow things like IT:Diffuse to protect against area effect damage officially nixed (and rightfully so, it's a quick, cheap way to total invincibility).

But I don't think this application of Cosmic to SD to remove this built-in limitation is even remotely as abusive. Have there ever been any rulings that said "no, shouldn't be allowed" to this?

Just to clarify, I'm the GM, and yes, I know I can do anything I want but I generally prefer to play by the RAW, making only minor deviations from it where appropriate.

Walrus · 04-10-2011, 01:23 PM

This is just Unkillable 2 ;)

Tyneras · 04-10-2011, 01:34 PM

There are some significant differences between Unkillable and Supernatural Durability. An Unkillable character can be "taken out" by many 1 HP attacks, that will do nothing but annoy the SD character. SD also has a built in resistance to crippling and Immunity to Pain.

The Achilles Heel limitation on Unkillable is -30% for an Occasional substance, so I think +50% should be a reasonable enhancement to remove an Occasional weakness (enhancements always cost more than equivalent limitations).

Edit: How powerful this enhancement is would vary significantly by the technology available. If I have 10 HP and SD (no weakness), then it takes a single hit of 100 HP to kill me. At TL 3, that means I'm almost invulnerable unless you drop a castle on me. At TL 12, 100+ HP of damage comes in the RoF 10+ flavor.

JCurwen3 · 04-10-2011, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walrus

This is just Unkillable 2 ;)

Not true!

Unkillable 2 works such that your body can't be reduced below -10xHP which would destroy it. It makes you physically indestructible even when "dead", and then you get better.

SD is different. With that, only your SD specific weakness (what I'm trying to remove) and taking a single attack that injures you for 10xHP or more can kill you. That is, if you take an 5 attacks in a given round, each one doing 9xHP and you started that round at 0 HP, then you'd still be fighting and wouldn't be dead but you'd be at -45xHP. Think Jason Voorhees. It also gives you total immunity to being knocked out or stunned and a bunch of other things.

Adding SD to Unkillable 2 would be... gruesome. They're certainly not the same thing, or even close.

David Johnston2 · 04-10-2011, 01:54 PM

It's probably allowable. But I'm not sure I see the point. Making PC's unstoppable is a bad idea, and it makes little difference whether a bad guy has a vulnerability or not if the characters don't know what it is.

JCurwen3 · 04-10-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's probably allowable. But I'm not sure I see the point. Making PC's unstoppable is a bad idea, and it makes little difference whether a bad guy has a vulnerability or not if the characters don't know what it is.

I probably wouldn't let a PC have SD full-stop, but I certainly might consider letting them have a power that gave them SD for each second they spent an FP for it, for instance, or some other limitation so they wouldn't have it all the time and would suffer harmful Backlash as part of the cost of using it.

Tyneras · 04-10-2011, 02:09 PM

SD (No weakness) + Berserk (No control, *2.5) = scary.

pawsplay · 04-10-2011, 01:31 PM

Technically, no. Supernatural Durability is a defense, which has a specified effect at the +50% level.

JCurwen3 · 04-10-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawsplay

Technically, no. Supernatural Durability is a defense, which has a specified effect at the +50% level.

Are you suggesting that I'd need better than Cosmic +50% to do this, like +100% or even +300%? Or saying not at all?

pawsplay · 04-10-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

Are you suggesting that I'd need better than Cosmic +50% to do this, like +100% or even +300%? Or saying not at all?

I'm just saying that no existing application of Cosmic of which I am aware does what you ask.

Spitballing it... Supernatural Durability is basically Unkillable 1 1/2, plus High Pain Threshold, some nice immunities, conditional Injury Tolerance, and the ability to function at very low Hit Point levels. +50% is probably not too cheap for what you're suggesting; it might even too expensive, since the difference between Unkillable 1 and Unkillable 2 is Regrowth plus [10] points. Reverse engineering Achilles' Heel suggests around +43%. However, not all the benefits of Supernatural Durability relate to your weakness in the first place.

So for simplicity's sake, I would just call it No Achilles' Heel (+40%). That's 60 points, cheaper than being Unkillable 2 all over again.

04-10-2011, 01:12 PM	#1
JCurwen3 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY	Supernatural Durability With No Weakness Is it acceptable to use Cosmic +50% to remove the "weakness" from SD? It still wouldn't be invulnerability (which is frowned upon RAW), as they can be slowed down with HP damage, and can be killed with a single attack that does 10xHP damage. I just ask because I've seen uses of Cosmic +50% or more to allow things like IT:Diffuse to protect against area effect damage officially nixed (and rightfully so, it's a quick, cheap way to total invincibility). But I don't think this application of Cosmic to SD to remove this built-in limitation is even remotely as abusive. Have there ever been any rulings that said "no, shouldn't be allowed" to this? Just to clarify, I'm the GM, and yes, I know I can do anything I want but I generally prefer to play by the RAW, making only minor deviations from it where appropriate. __________________ -JC

04-10-2011, 01:23 PM	#2
Walrus Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia	Re: Supernatural Durability With No Weakness This is just Unkillable 2 ;) __________________ MH Setting. Welcome to help.

04-10-2011, 01:34 PM	#3
Tyneras Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kentucky, USA	Re: Supernatural Durability With No Weakness There are some significant differences between Unkillable and Supernatural Durability. An Unkillable character can be "taken out" by many 1 HP attacks, that will do nothing but annoy the SD character. SD also has a built in resistance to crippling and Immunity to Pain. The Achilles Heel limitation on Unkillable is -30% for an Occasional substance, so I think +50% should be a reasonable enhancement to remove an Occasional weakness (enhancements always cost more than equivalent limitations). Edit: How powerful this enhancement is would vary significantly by the technology available. If I have 10 HP and SD (no weakness), then it takes a single hit of 100 HP to kill me. At TL 3, that means I'm almost invulnerable unless you drop a castle on me. At TL 12, 100+ HP of damage comes in the RoF 10+ flavor. Last edited by Tyneras; 04-10-2011 at 01:48 PM.

04-10-2011, 01:54 PM	#5
David Johnston2 Join Date: Dec 2007	Re: Supernatural Durability With No Weakness It's probably allowable. But I'm not sure I see the point. Making PC's unstoppable is a bad idea, and it makes little difference whether a bad guy has a vulnerability or not if the characters don't know what it is.

04-10-2011, 02:09 PM	#7
Tyneras Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kentucky, USA	Re: Supernatural Durability With No Weakness SD (No weakness) + Berserk (No control, *2.5) = scary.

04-10-2011, 01:31 PM	#8
pawsplay Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: Supernatural Durability With No Weakness Technically, no. Supernatural Durability is a defense, which has a specified effect at the +50% level.