Damage to Armor

[Psychotime]

I'm actually surprised that there aren't any official rules on something like that (not that I'd use them). I mean...GURPS has a reputation to keep.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

I wasn't thinking of DF. Plenty of my campaigns involved the party exploring a "dungeon"* for extended periods of time. If they were involved in frequent combat then I would use armour and weapon damage just as I would keep record of their arrows, food, and light sources. Most of the time I don't bother with this level of detail since they would have ready access to supplies and services.

* mine complex, catacombs, ruined fortress, derelict spaceship, etc.

Very true, dungeons aren't by no means exclusive of Dungeon Fantasy!

(However, I believe Kuroshima was merely speaking from the point of view of one of his current campaigns and gaming mood.)

Originally Posted by Psychotime

I'm actually surprised that there aren't any official rules on something like that (not that I'd use them). I mean...GURPS has a reputation to keep.

I agree. And I would be up for a GURPS Basic Set with about 1000+ pages or more. . . These rules on armor damage are going to be very appreciated. They were expected.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

(...) Now, I use damage to shields rules even in DF, and I'll probably add damage to armors...

I agree very much with that. It can contribute to enhance the game experience.

[Gudiomen]

It's not that there weren't rules for armor damage to this day, there were. I believe they were in Compendium II 3rd edition, but I'm a little lazy to dig it up, and I might be misremembering from all the discussions and house-rules that were flying about at the end of 3e.

It's more the fact that, like Dan said, they're not very satisfactory, and when they are they become (I assume) too crunchy and annoying to book-keep. I myself never liked the rules, although the simulator in me aches for armor that degrades, all the options examined up to now are more annoying than satisfactory, they leave a bad taste in your mouth or bog up your game.

It's quite possible that this was deemed too specific for Basic, while at the same time unsatisfactory and a possible obstacle for Fun. And Fun beats Realism in 4e. I can't speak for the game-developers and editors though, but the rules for it aren't new.

This is one area in which, in the absence of good rules, I prefer to eyeball things as the GM.

[Lord Azagthoth]

In my campaign, the normal maintenance cost is covered by the Cost of Living. Only when someone gets hit critically, or loses a armored limb, damage is calculated. In case of the crit, I use the semi-ablative rule for the bodypart hit. In case of the lost limb, that section is completely destroyed.

[panton41]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

As Matt said, there are armour damage riules in Companion 2, but all of the options examined in the Low-Tech playtest involve an annoying level of book-keeping. We did include a Quick and Dirty option but it isn't very satisfying IMO. I would only bother with armour damage when the PCs are involved in frequent fighting and don't have access to armoury services for extended periods of time - such as when exploring a dungeon or when in the middle of a military campaign. For the rest of the time I would just rule that the Cost of Living expenses includes keeping your armour maintained.

I know they're written for Low Tech, but how might these scale to High- or Ultra-Tech or does that idea give you a migraine to consider? (I seem to recall HT suggesting to treat bullet resistant armors as semi-ablative to simulate how they lose effectiveness after a few hits.)

[Maz]

I use a very simple rule based on the Ablative-DR idea.

Each type of armour has an ID number (Impact Damage). This is the amount of damage needed to reduce the DR by one.

So a really sturdy exo-amour might have ID:20, while a flak-vest have ID:4.


This rule was originally for a cyberpunk setting (SLA Industries), where damage to armour is a big part of the original rule-set, that's also where the ID-name comes from.
But the rules could easily be used for any setting, including fantasy.

You could base the ID number on material and go with something as simple as Leather/Cloth=ID:6. Mail=ID:8. Iron=ID:10. Steel=ID:12.
Or whatever you find appropriate. This also gives access to a new stat to play with when it comes to quality of armour. Poor quality armour will of course have a reduced ID.

For added details you might let people add the cutting multiplier of cut-attacks to see if they damage leather/cloth armour. (So you only need to do 4 pts cut to reduce DR with 1 of the armour).



I don't have any rules for repairing armour, as in the setting I made the rules for ,it was just done at a set price in a shop.
But you could probably whip something up based on the rules in Basic.

[DanHoward]

Low Tech basically uses the Damage to Objects rules. Determine the armour's weight and look up its hit points on p.B558 in the Homogenus column. When HP is less than 1/3 it has half DR. When it is 0 or less then it is so damaged that it no longer provides any protection at all. It also affects DX until it is removed. It is covered in Companion 2.

[Peter V. Dell'Orto]

Originally Posted by aesir23

That's very cool. It's for 3e, but I'm not sure how much you'd have to change it.

You shouldn't need to change it at all. I didn't, and kept using it after my campaign switched to 4e.

It's bookkeeping-heavy, but if you're worried about cumulative armor damage, I think you're already moving into a bookkeeping direction.

(Also note that Dan Howard gets a nod in that article - he was one of the crew of people who extensively commented and re-commented on that article while I was writing it. I think the newer solution is more consistent, but this one will still work if you like it.)

[Evil Roy Slade]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

I'm fond of replacing the '9,10,11' results on the Critical Hit table with 'in addition to normal damage, the attack reduces the DR of any armour on the affected hit location by 1 for every five points of damage'. Mostly because it 'fixes' a frequently complained about issue with the critical hit table and requires a lot less book-keeping than more detailed solutions.

I like this a lot. Few things are as disappointing to a PC as rolling a critical hit and then having it be nothing at all unusual. "All right, your axe bites deep into his sword arm, he gets no defense and (rattle rattle)... well, he gets no defense anyway."

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Low Tech basically uses the Damage to Objects rules. Determine the armour's weight and look up its hit points on p.B558 in the Homogenus column.

What one would expect. What would an armor's DR be for itself?