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Old 09-21-2007, 12:01 PM   #11
Phil Masters
 
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Default Re: Where the pike?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadkiller_Dog
Bill's write, a hypothetical low-tech book would cover both TL2 (pike warfare at it's finest), and TL4 (pike-and-shot), and would be a logical place to discuss pikes.
There are some large Swiss gentlemen and some rather surly looking Renaissance-era Spaniards out back here looking to discuss your definition of "finest"...
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: Where the pike?

What the other guys said. A pike isn't a melee weapon in the conventional Basic Set or Martial Arts sense. At its heart it's more akin to caltrops, a tank obstacle, or razor wire, in that it's a defense used to impede mobility through a controlled area; it just happens to be more portable. The bulk of the killing is then done by other weapons -- in this case, bills, halberds, bows, crossbows, muskets, etc. The fact that some chap is holding onto the far end makes it look melee-weapon-ish, but use is closer to something like Explosives, Poisons, or Traps in nature, in that it's all about effective deployment, not parry, feint, and thrust.

In game terms, have a formation of soldiers roll against the higher of average Spear or average DX-based Soldier (at TL2-4), with either taking a -2 for unfamiliarity if they've never used pikes. Success means the pike formation holds up. As an individual combat weapon, it would be about a Reach 6 spear that can't parry, feint, resist feints, or disarm; that takes many turns to Ready after each attack; and that can only attack at all if the user took a Wait in order to Stop Thust, although you could generously allow a user to poke with it like a spear at about Spear-6 if he's just standing there.

The place for such rules is squarely in some putative Mass Combat book, though, and not Martial Arts. I think a martial-arts historian could make a good case for pike warfare only be a "martial art" inasmuch as artillery gunnery and logistics are "martial arts."
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: Where the pike?

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Originally Posted by Kromm
The place for such rules is squarely in some putative Mass Combat book, though, and not Martial Arts. I think a martial-arts historian could make a good case for pike warfare only be a "martial art" inasmuch as artillery gunnery and logistics are "martial arts."
Of course, by the basic definition of 'martial' (of or relating to war), I would say that artillery and logistics have a better claim than unarmed combat techniques.
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Old 09-21-2007, 12:21 PM   #14
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Default Re: Where the pike?

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Originally Posted by Anthony

Of course, by the basic definition of 'martial' (of or relating to war), I would say that artillery and logistics have a better claim than unarmed combat techniques.
Could be! But that's not how the term is used these days . . .
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Old 09-21-2007, 03:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Where the pike?

Thanks Kromm. How come the pike can't feint, disarm, etc? Surely any object could be used to disarm someone if used correctly.
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Old 09-21-2007, 03:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Where the pike?

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Originally Posted by t@nya
How come the pike can't feint, disarm, etc?
Because it's too damn big and heavy. It's generally all one can do just to hold a pike or similarly long spear, let alone move it around with any force or accuracy.
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Old 09-21-2007, 03:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Where the pike?

The pike is something like 15-20 feet long. You don't use it by moving it around; you use it by planting it in the ground and holding it steady. It's really hard to disarm someone with a weapon that you don't actually move. :)
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Where the pike?

So a normal human couldn't use it to feint, disarm, etc. I'm assuming that someone with super strength could use it that way.
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Old 09-21-2007, 04:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Where the pike?

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Originally Posted by t@nya
So a normal human couldn't use it to feint, disarm, etc. I'm assuming that someone with super strength could use it that way.
Sure, and GURPS Supers has guidelines for scaling up a longer weapon's weight, required ST, and thrust and swing damage. Do you have a copy of it?

I'm looking at doing a double length katana for one of my upcoming campaigns, for a Japanese super named Samebito. . . .

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Old 09-21-2007, 04:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Where the pike?

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Originally Posted by whswhs
Sure, and GURPS Supers has guidelines for scaling up a longer weapon's weight, required ST, and thrust and swing damage. Do you have a copy of it?

I'm looking at doing a double length katana for one of my upcoming campaigns, for a Japanese super named Samebito. . . .

Bill Stoddard
Yeah I've got a copy around though I haven't read it in detail.
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