02-21-2006, 09:35 AM | #41 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
So, when exactly is the last time that anyone actually read 3e Low Tech?
First of all, I disagree that it's a catalog of gadgets, and if the 4e equivalent is keeping all of the information that is present in 3e, I think there is already quite a lot of discussion regarding the infrastructure that supports the gadgets. If anything, I would like to see MORE space devoted to lists of equipment with prices and game stats. However, rather than putting them all in the last 10 pages, perhaps they could be separated out by TL and placed near the appropriate bits of text discussion in the relevant chapter. Also, I found the discussion of technologies in each of the TL chapters to be overly attached to particular cultures, which is fine if that happens to be the culture you're interested in for that TL, but not so good otherwise. I suggest that the 4e book keep the format of having the four sections; one for each TL within the scope of the book, but broaden the discussion to talk about the achievements, abilities and limitations of each TL in more general terms, then somewhere in each section, include as large and exhaustive list as you can of times and places that fit this TL. e.g. TL2 Scandinavia ??? AD - ??? AD Roman Republic/Empire ??? BC - ??? AD Central Europe (France and Germany) ??? AD - ??? AD etc. Or perhaps have only one chart/table, in a prominent location, with an entry for each cultural/geographic region, and a brief paragraph detailing its overall technological progress at various dates, and including notes about deviations from overall TL in specific areas. e.g. Scandinavia can generally be considered to be TL0 until about ??? BC, then TL1 until ???. The early Viking period (~400AD - 700AD) is mostly TL2, but definitely TL3 in the area of sea transport and possibly in some specific areas of arms and armour technology... etc. This way, no matter what cultural inspiration the reader has in mind, they can identify with it and read the more general information through a lens that resonates with them. This also caters more to the reader that is more interested in Fantasy gaming than Historical gaming, as it allows them to more readily adapt the elements from each TL to an entirely fictional culture. Then, at the end of each TL section, have about 10-15 pages devoted exclusively to Fantasy considerations and how myth and magic might affect the technology at this level, as well as lists of fantastic/magical gadgets that fit best with that TL, to supplement the more mundane items in the main part. So, if you keep all of the supporting information that exists in 3e, but generalise it so that it is less culture-specific, increase the information on arms, armour, adventuring supplies, and transport, integrated with weights, prices and game stats throughout the book, and supplemented with game-relevant rules on customisation (especially with respect to melee weapons, armour and bows/crossbows), and tack on 10-15 pages of Fantasy-specific stuff at each TL, I think you should have more than enough to fill 240 pages. In particular, expanding on game rules for smithing, armoury and bow-making, both in mundane and fantasy aspects, would be invaluable. Finally, expanding the Job Table from the 3e version to be consistent with existing rules on wealth by TL, and including info on Cost of Living by TL, that would be great. ... ... Yep, I think I'm about done. |
02-21-2006, 09:56 AM | #42 |
Experimental Subject
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: saarbrücken, germany
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
Let me point out that what Fantasy Gear is to Low-Tech gear, Superscience is to Hard Science. But I assume no one wanted Ultra-Tech without the superscience part, right? So I can see Fantasy Gear fit right into Low Tech.
While I'm personally very interested in a gamer-friendly version of demographics and stuff, I think this is so important and massive it merits a book of its own, not just a chapter (or a text box) somewhere in a book. To those who can't wait at all, there are a few tidbits in Infinite Worlds on how to design societies and whole libraries on social history in the RL. So I agree with Rogue: Gurps Societies would be a coooool thing. A definite buy. Though it'd need a catchier title :)
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02-21-2006, 10:00 AM | #43 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
No, not quite done.
I see I was pre-empted a little in pointing this out... Quote:
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BTW, for what it's worth, I have a friend who has been playing d20 all his life, who told me recently that, while the whole idea of GURPS as a gaming system kinda turns him off, he did go out and buy Low Tech, which he finds incredibly useful and might even have gotten him thinking about giving GURPS as a whole another look-see. I know, I know, "my friend" doesn't even count as a percent of a percent of a percent of your marketing figures, but there you go. |
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02-21-2006, 10:05 AM | #44 | |
Grim Reaper
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
Quote:
Low tech info will help to save my time; fantasy tech stuff will not.
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bye! -- Lut God of the Cult of Stat Normalization |
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02-21-2006, 10:17 AM | #45 | |
Experimental Subject
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: saarbrücken, germany
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
Quote:
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Like a mail order mogwai...but nerdier - Nymdok understanding is a three-edged sword
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02-21-2006, 10:31 AM | #46 | |
Grim Reaper
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
Quote:
All sci-fi stuff is fictional, that's a fact. This fictional stuff can be more or less likely to happen. Low tech happened, and you need to research for it, and searching takes time, and I (as many of you) don't have a lot of gaming time. So putting fantasy stuff into the book, detracts from its utility. Personally I don't want fantasy stuff into Low-Tech, not even a page. It already have GURPS Fantasy, Fantastic Cities, Modern Fantasy, Banestorm, (a likely) Magic Items and so on. However if having a (little) content of fantasy tech is the only way to get the book done, I'll resign. But, keep the title Low-Tech, I can already envision arguments shot down, hypothetical example: "Hey, Mr. Playtester Complainer, the book is not GURPS Realistic Historical Stuff, it's Fantasy Tech, the armors and weapons should be fun and gameable above all" OMG. Beware of Fantasy-Tech title. PS: has someone a clear idea of what's fantasy tech?
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02-21-2006, 10:34 AM | #47 | |
Experimental Subject
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: saarbrücken, germany
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
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02-21-2006, 10:37 AM | #48 | |
Grim Reaper
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Italy
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
Quote:
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02-21-2006, 11:28 AM | #49 | ||
Munchkin Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
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02-21-2006, 11:56 AM | #50 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dobbstown Sane Asylum
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Re: [PURE THEORY] Low-Tech vs Fantasy-Tech
Quote:
As I read it, he's saying (to paraphrase), "Gameability and fun should take precedence over simulationism in GURPS." You're interpreting this as, "Simulationism should not be a consideration." In other words, yes, things like armor weights, etc., should be as accurate as possible. However, if there's ever a need to choose between a 100% accurate presentation of something and a gameable and fun presentation of it, GURPS should/will choose the latter.
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