[LT] [LTIA] Quick Question: Cheap Before or After Padding?

[Stripe]

Canonically speaking and rules as written, should the cheap quality modifier, Low-Tech, p. 109, be applied before or after adding padding to a helmet?

I know it depends if it is part of the helmet or not, but generally speaking, if one has a medium plate pot helm from Low-Tech: Instant Armor, then adds padding, then decides he wants to make it cheap quality from LTIA p. 18, should the cheap be applied to $500 or $510? In other words, should the cheap-quality version be $310 or $306?

Rules references and page numbers appreciated!

Thanks!

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Canonically speaking and rules as written, should the cheap quality modifier, Low-Tech, p. 109, be applied before or after adding padding to a helmet?

I know it depends if it is part of the helmet or not, but generally speaking, if one has a medium plate pot helm from Low-Tech: Instant Armor, then adds padding, then decides he wants to make it cheap quality from LTIA p. 18, should the cheap be applied to $500 or $510? In other words, should the cheap-quality version be $310 or $306?

Rules references and page numbers appreciated!

Thanks!

Padding for helmets was designed as a layer of padded cloth that covered the skull in most cases, for $10 and 1.2 lbs, DR 1. But if you apply cheap, it will be $4, 1.2lbs . . . and DR 0, since once of the effects of "cheap" is -1 DR, and that will impact the cloth armor designed as a separate piece. It's not integrated in the design.

I'd use the slightly larger $310 price if you want to include DR 1, or charge the $6 for "fits well, but not extra protection."

[Stripe]

Okay, I hear you, but the DR is unchanged regardless if cheap is applied before or after padding is added, right?

A non-cheap helmet has DR 6 ($500). Add padding is 7 ($510). A non-cheap padded helmet has DR 7 ($510).

A cheap helmet has DR 5 ($300). Add padding is 6 ($310). A cheap padded helmet has DR 6 ($306).

Same DR, less money.

However, if you're saying historically, padding was usually always separate, like a little sock hat or whatever, and that Low-Tech was designed to add padding as an absolute value, then okay, I can get on board with that. In fact, it will make my job easier.

Otherwise, I can see a cheap helmet having cheap padding and a fine helmet having fine padding attached to the helmet in both cases.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Okay, I hear you, but the DR is unchanged regardless if cheap is applied before or after padding is added, right?

A non-cheap helmet has DR 6 ($500). Add padding is 7 ($510). A non-cheap padded helmet has DR 7 ($510).

A cheap helmet has DR 5 ($300). Add padding is 6 ($310). A cheap padded helmet has DR 6 ($306).

Same DR, less money.

However, if you're saying historically, padding was usually always separate, like a little sock hat or whatever, and that Low-Tech was designed to add padding as an absolute value, then okay, I can get on board with that. In fact, it will make my job easier.

Otherwise, I can see a cheap helmet having cheap padding and a fine helmet having fine padding attached to the helmet in both cases.

I'm saying that LTIA padding was modeled as an entirely separate piece of armor, covering the desired hit locations and providing DR 1. Thus, you need (in my opinion) to apply cheap to it separately, which makes it cost 60% less, but it's now DR 0.

I can't speak to the historicity of it. But I can (as Lead Playtester of LTIA) tell you how we modeled it.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Okay, I hear you, but the DR is unchanged regardless if cheap is applied before or after padding is added, right?

A non-cheap helmet has DR 6 ($500). Add padding is 7 ($510). A non-cheap padded helmet has DR 7 ($510).

A cheap helmet has DR 5 ($300). Add padding is 6 ($310). A cheap padded helmet has DR 6 ($306).

Same DR, less money.

However, if you're saying historically, padding was usually always separate, like a little sock hat or whatever, and that Low-Tech was designed to add padding as an absolute value, then okay, I can get on board with that. In fact, it will make my job easier.

Otherwise, I can see a cheap helmet having cheap padding and a fine helmet having fine padding attached to the helmet in both cases.

Low Tech always models the padding as being a separate thing. I don't know whether the padding is actually supposed to always be a separable part or if it could be a built-in liner, but as far as statting it it's clearly its own piece of armor that would be modified separately.

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I'm saying that LTIA padding was modeled as an entirely separate piece of armor, covering the desired hit locations and providing DR 1.

Okay. Perfect. Glad to hear. Thanks a lot.

[Stripe]

Oh, crap. That brings up another question, much as I hate to ask.

RAW and canon, if it's entirely separate piece of armor, shouldn't it have it's own don time?

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Oh, crap. That brings up another question, much as I hate to ask.

RAW and canon, if it's entirely separate piece of armor, shouldn't it have it's own don time?

I think this is a case of don't be overdriven mechanically. The padding is tied or riveted into the armor, so you don them simultaneously. i suspect that if you put them on one at a time voluntarily, it will be the same as any other helmet.

[Stripe]

Very well. I can certainly accept that.

Thanks again.