08-27-2019, 11:43 AM | #41 |
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
Edit: Another brainfart on my part; big creatures are not *more* dangerous, but rather (if converting to KYOS strength/BL) they're *less* dangerous with the new damage values. Example: ST 100 = KYOS ST 30, so Sw 13d -> Sw 6d. Re-Edit: Nope, neither. Not even close. After conversion from RAW Strength to KYOS Strength, damage itself remains approximately the same. My brain's a little melty.
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- Danny Last edited by Antiquation!; 08-27-2019 at 02:35 PM. |
08-27-2019, 11:56 AM | #42 | |||||
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
Oh, also, what should be done with ST-based weapon damage modifiers in this +10 = ×20 system? I figure it's somewhat related to how DR works since DR is subtraction and ST-based weapon damage modifiers are addition and subtraction.
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So, we know how ST and weight relate. And we know how HP and damage relate. How do we relate HP and ST/weight using the numbers we already have? Quote:
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For the second underlined point, that's exactly because it was easier to keep HP quadratic. Though, again, you have a point. If the new damage progression was meant to be used alongside quadratic HP, couldn't you just use that damage for CI? I'd say maybe because I don't 100% know the answer, but I'd lean toward no. KYOS just wasn't fully fleshed-out.
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Raekai's links: My blog about conlanging, GURPS, and other stuff! — Using Knowing Your Own Strength with Conditional Injury Simulating multiple attacks Wildcard Power Pool: a flexible magic/powers system Magic to RPM complete conversion v2 (incomplete) Perussinexian Magic 2 (outdated) Last edited by Raekai; 08-27-2019 at 11:59 AM. |
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08-27-2019, 01:05 PM | #43 | |
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
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08-27-2019, 01:38 PM | #44 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
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08-27-2019, 04:55 PM | #45 | |
World's Worst Detective
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
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ST 10 = BL 20 = 125 lb. ST 100 = BL 2000 = 125000 lb. Okay, that’s a neat pattern. ×10 ST = ×100 BL = ×1000 lb and ST = HP. Or ×10^1 ST = ×10^2 BL = ×10^3 lb. I'm getting it, I think. So, if +20 ST = ×100 BL = ×1000 lb, then… +20 ST = +30 HP? If so, that's a bit inconvenient to work with. How would/could I keep ST and HP bundled together? I suppose, instead of linearly, I could say each +1 ST gives +1.5 HP, but that's not terribly clean either.
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Raekai's links: My blog about conlanging, GURPS, and other stuff! — Using Knowing Your Own Strength with Conditional Injury Simulating multiple attacks Wildcard Power Pool: a flexible magic/powers system Magic to RPM complete conversion v2 (incomplete) Perussinexian Magic 2 (outdated) |
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08-27-2019, 05:33 PM | #46 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
If we define Mass as the amount of ST required to lift you as 1x BL, and we use the rules in Basic for computing ST, a 125 lb creature has Mass 18, linear HP 10, BL 20 (corresponding to KYoS ST 10), a 125,000 lb creature has Mass 48, linear HP 100, BL 2,000 (corresponding to KYoS ST 30) -- i.e. KYoS ST score = Mass * 2/3 - 2.
Using the original RT in CI, we can compute RT in two different ways:
Now, in KYoS, that 125,000 lb creature is assigned BL 20,000 and ST 40, and the computation for RT becomes ST * 0.2 + 2 (+30 ST = x10 HP). It's not a problem to keep ST and RT bundled together. It just means you have to actually calculate the ST of objects, instead of directly looking up their weight. Or you can just have two formulas. |
08-27-2019, 07:50 PM | #47 | |
World's Worst Detective
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
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Mass = ST required to lift oneself as BL × 1. ST = Mass × 2/3 - 2. RT = ST × 0.2 + 2. Though, I'm confused about you saying that you're using Basic ST to compute ST for those examples. KYOS ST 18 has BL 126, and Basic ST 25 has BL 125. But why is the 125,000 lb creature now assigned BL 20,000 instead of BL 2,000 like before? I thought the relationship would stay the same. Keeping ST and RT bundled with that formula isn't too bad. Though, it works out to being RT being 10 points/level, which is a bit annoying like Basic Speed, which means that RT will break down to +0.2 RT [2/level] to keep it in line with the cost of HP. I'm also fine with using two formulas. What would the second one—to convert from weight to RT—be? Of course, I see RT = (Mass × 2/3 + 2) × 2/3 - 2, though that still, of course, requires knowing Mass, which is fine.
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Raekai's links: My blog about conlanging, GURPS, and other stuff! — Using Knowing Your Own Strength with Conditional Injury Simulating multiple attacks Wildcard Power Pool: a flexible magic/powers system Magic to RPM complete conversion v2 (incomplete) Perussinexian Magic 2 (outdated) |
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08-28-2019, 08:12 PM | #48 |
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
After 24 hours from my last post and about a week from the first post...
Ultimately, what I want is one unified system to use Knowing Your Own Strength (KYOS) from Pyramid #3/83: Alternate GURPS IV and Conditional Injury (CI) from Pyramid #3/120: Alternate GURPS V. Ideally, it would be realistic, easy-to-use, and directly work with KYOS and CI. There has been a lot of great work so far, and I'm extremely grateful to each of the contributors. Still, the above goal has not been met. Throughout this thread, there are pieces of different systems that might work. Anthony’s Know Your Own Damage is very close, but it doesn’t satisfy the idea of directly working with KYOS and CI because there isn’t enough information on how the systems interact. THE +30 = ×10 SYSTEM This is what Anthony’s Know Your Own Damage is based on, and Anthony has listed the advantages of this system here. I’m fairly certain that RyanW is also working in this system, but I don’t want to claim that to be true when I’m not sure. RyanW's System
THE +24 = ×10 SYSTEM This assumes that BL in KYOS is converted to be +10 = ×12. It's a bit of extra work, but it could be done. Plus, dataweaver mentioned that it “gives you easy squares and cubes”, but the importance is beyond what I can safely guess. Anthony argues that it gives “nasty numbers”, and dataweaver argues that it's “less of a concern than you might think, since we're actually more interested in ranges of values than exact values”. Earlier in the thread, dataweaver detailed these values here. THE +20 = ×10 SYSTEM The +20 = ×10 system feels the best to me. It seems like it would take the least effort to get working directly with KYOS, especially because BL in KYOS is based off of +10 = ×10. KYOS also converts BS ST into KYOS strength this way since KYOS ST is based on 20 times the log of BS ST. dataweaver details a conversion from BS HP/damage to the +20 = ×10 system here. Going forward, there’s a bit of confusion. dataweaver's +20 = ×10 System
Anthony's +20 = ×10 System
A MESSY SOLUTION Everything is calculated per BS except for ST, which is the default assumption of KYOS. However, for this, damage is reverted to how it was before for calculating reasonable WP.
And it is messy. Almost everyone and everything will be buying extra HP, and damage will always have to be looked up from a table because the progression will be janky. Plus, this still relies on the very large HP and damage bands in CI. Though, I must admit that I don’t like the damage progression in BS. So, alternatively, I use tbone’s New Damage for ST, which, yes, is 10 years old. If you don’t mind everything being a bit deadlier, use it as is with “medium” damage and “large” damage on the New Damage Table (or you can use it in conjunction with tbone’s Toughness, but that adds another layer). Otherwise, per tbone’s suggestion, you can use “small” damage and “medium” damage on the Expanded New Damage Table (and it’s suggested to give big weapons a damage boost). Personally, I think there’s a nice middle ground in using the New Damage Table and shifting the table to ST 7 is ST 10, so ST 10 is 1d-2/1d damage. That leaves me with the following:
Current Thoughts It really is a toss-up between a few options right now.
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Raekai's links: My blog about conlanging, GURPS, and other stuff! — Using Knowing Your Own Strength with Conditional Injury Simulating multiple attacks Wildcard Power Pool: a flexible magic/powers system Magic to RPM complete conversion v2 (incomplete) Perussinexian Magic 2 (outdated) |
08-28-2019, 10:25 PM | #49 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
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The main sticking point is damage adds. Sw+3, for example. If you leave it a simple add, it becomes a proportional add rather than flat add. An ogre wielding a great axe becomes utterly terrifying. As long as you are playing a game that sticks relatively close to human scale, you would probably get good results halving and rounding away from zero. I think my system is what you are calling +20 = ×10, or at least started that way before decoupling from the RAW damage system.
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08-29-2019, 09:20 AM | #50 | ||
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Re: Conditional Injury with Knowing Your Own Strength
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So, if I understand correctly, your system is this:
It also seems fair to do this (i.e., multiply most things by 3):
You could probably add intermediate steps to DR (because it's a bit weird after multiplying by 3 and leaving as-is).
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Raekai's links: My blog about conlanging, GURPS, and other stuff! — Using Knowing Your Own Strength with Conditional Injury Simulating multiple attacks Wildcard Power Pool: a flexible magic/powers system Magic to RPM complete conversion v2 (incomplete) Perussinexian Magic 2 (outdated) |
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Tags |
conditional injury, hit points, knowing your own strength, kyos, logarithm |
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