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Old 06-18-2009, 11:03 AM   #1
Michele
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Default How do they say "fighter", here?

Somewhere else, a discussion has cropped up about the terms used by the various combatant nations of WWII in order to identify that kind of aircraft primarily intended to down other aircraft: the fighter. Given that as of lately, linguistical threads seem to abound, around here, I thought why not ask about this here, too.

Of course, people had to make use of pre-existing ideas to define this kind of aircraft. So, far my list includes the following:

- combat (in English – fighter)
- hunt (in German, French, Italian, Romanian, Polish etc.)
- pursuit (in English – yes, as in "pursuit aircraft" – and in Polish too)
- destruction (in German – but reserved to heavy fighters – and in Finnish)
- extermination (in Russian).

So it seems English-speakers, Poles and Germans used two different ideas: combat and pursuit for the English, hunt and pursuit for the Poles, and hunt and destruction for the Germans. Curious.

I wonder what idea did the Japanese resort to?
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

The Term "Jäger" comes natural for a german fighter since that's how the WWI pilots (often nobles) saw themselfes. Actively stalking and killing the prey.

Zerstörer for a heavy fighter might come from the concept of the naval "Destroyer" (Zerstörer in german), a heavy-punching but light and agile craft
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Old 06-18-2009, 12:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

My Japanese ranks somewhere between nonexistant and terrible. But:

The Zeke was called the "0 Shiki Kanjou Sentou-ki". (The Claude was the "96 Shiki Kanjou Sentou-ki".) Taking this fairly literally, it means "0 Type Aboard-ship Battle Aircraft". "Sentou" is translated as "battle;fight;combat" by my dictionary. "-ki" denotes that the thing is part of the category of aircraft. (It's not really the word for airplane. It's a "counter" word, which is a little more complicated to explain.) "Kanjou" means "shipboard". So more idiomatically, "Type 0 Carrier Fighter".

For comparison, the Val was the 99 Shiki Kanjou Bakugeki-ki. "Bakugeki" is "bomber", or more literally "explosion-chink (in armor)-ship-sinking" plane. "Bakugou" is "detonation". "Gekichin" means "sinking a ship".

Kate was a Kanjou Kougeki-ki. "Kougeki" means "attack", so "Carrier Attack Plane". Betty was a Rikujou Koukeki-ki, where "rikujou" means "land- or shore-based"; "riku" is "land".
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

I can't help for WWII, but in WWI they were commonly referred to as Scouts by the British and American forces. Possibly the French as well.
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Old 06-18-2009, 04:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
snip
- combat (in English – fighter)
- hunt (in German, French, Italian, Romanian, Polish etc.)
- pursuit (in English – yes, as in "pursuit aircraft" – and in Polish too)
- destruction (in German – but reserved to heavy fighters – and in Finnish)
- extermination (in Russian).
So it seems English-speakers, Poles and Germans used two different ideas: combat and pursuit for the English, hunt and pursuit for the Poles, and hunt and destruction for the Germans. Curious.
I wonder what idea did the Japanese resort to?
UK terms:
Overall generic term for military armed aircraft: 'warplane' until 'combat aircraft' took over.
Most larger aircraft were at first called 'battle aircraft', the smaller were 'scouts'.
Aircraft then became described by role or 'type': bombers, transports, troop transports, recconnaisance, army cooperation, bomber-destroyer, escort-fighter, night-fighter, turret-fighter, day-fighter.
Later we get ground-attack, all-weather fighter.

'Aeroplane' properly defines the surface that lifts the vehicle; 'airscrew' is what is today known as a propeller (either tractor- (pulling) or pusher- types); the US 'vertical stabiliser' becomes 'fin and rudder', 'horizontal stabiliser' becomes 'tail surfaces and elevators'. These together are sometimes called the 'empennage'.
The engine covers are usually called 'the cowling', the cockpit cover is a 'canopy' (usually a 'sliding canopy' made of PerspexTM). Any trim or wind defelctors around this is a 'coaming'.
The French terms fuselage, aileron are used as is.

The German term Jager also applies to light infantry and mountain troops, a clue to the intent?

The Italians used 'caccia' for fighters. Sounds like 'catchers' to me, but I suspect someone on the forum knows Italian better than me. Michele?
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

Jaeger originally meant "hunter" or "gamekeeper" or "woodsman" and would have been the equiv to the American "ranger" almost literally. It became light infantry because Frederick the Great not unreasonably thought people recruited from such occupations could make an effective counter to Croats.

The history is simmilar to "Rangers" who were a counter to Indians in a similar way since pre-independance America. It survives in the US Army Rangers and of course in the Texas Rangers which were originally a military body though in frontier regions the line between law enforcement and war can be thin.

Jaegers later became an inate part of the Prussian Army and from there to several others. They were something of an anomaly in the Fredrickan army. Old Fritz was a control freak but he was practical. His immiediate successors were however not even practical. However Jaegers fit in quite well to the War of Liberation army in which they became(if I recall)popular among young ideologically inclined intellectuals and burghers-not to mention officers who just wanted glory, promotion, and a chance to escape their superior's eye.

They fit in well with the Wars of Unifactation Army for in a peculiar sort of way the later Prussian and Imperial German armies(and the Wehrmacht) had some resemblance to the Bonapartist army, at least in the glorification of initiative.

Special Forces and "sub-special forces" elite infantry, like paratroopers and mountain troops were often associated with "Jaeger" in their titles. As paratroopers could be said to have fulfilled the skirmisher role that is not unreasonable, and with alpine infantry it was kind of like coming full circle as of course the original "Jaegers" would have worked in Central European Mountains.
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason taylor View Post
Special Forces and "sub-special forces" elite infantry, like paratroopers and mountain troops were often associated with "Jaeger" in their titles.
More than associated. Paratroopers are Fallschirmjäger, mountain troops are Gebirgsjäger. The way german works, this means they are specialized jäger.
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Old 06-19-2009, 12:59 AM   #8
Michele
 
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtcallistan View Post

The German term Jager also applies to light infantry and mountain troops, a clue to the intent?
"Jäger" generically meant light troops in the 1700s and thereafter, because they could move as a hunter instead of in a rigid formation. The same goes for "chasseur" in French, or "cazadore" in Portuguese. And, of course, they could bring down their quarry individually, instead of with a volley.

Quote:
The Italians used 'caccia' for fighters. Sounds like 'catchers' to me, but I suspect someone on the forum knows Italian better than me. Michele?
No, as I mentioned, Italian goes with French, Romanian, German etc.; the basic idea is "hunting". Italian "Caccia" = French "Chasse".
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:02 AM   #9
Michele
 
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
My Japanese ranks somewhere between nonexistant and terrible.
But still way better than mine! Thanks, I think you answered the question. It seems the Japanese go with the idea of "combat", like the English speakers with "fighter". That's interesting, given that the very first steps of the Japanese military aviation were more influenced by the French experience.
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: How do they say "fighter", here?

In Swedish an aircaft specifically for taking on other aircraft is a jaktplan - literally a hunting plane. War planes in general are stridsflygplan/stridsplan, literally a fighting plane, or 'conflict' plane.

edit: and it looks like Danish has the same usage, with its division between jagerfly (hunting plane) and militærfly (war plane).

Last edited by lazlo_woodbine; 06-19-2009 at 02:56 AM.
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