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Old 12-03-2020, 07:11 AM   #11
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: Own SM and ranged

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
Yeah, it's a bit sloppy when I say "range". What I mean is the compounded estimate of primarily angular size, and I think that what's bothering me is attacker size. Or, more specifically, projectile size.
The angular size of the target does not change with the size of the attacker. The size of the projectile changes the damage done and may have other effects depending on the kind of projectile it is Śrange, armor divisor, bulk, etc. Ś but we're back to comparing apples and oranges.

Quote:
Also, what's a "hit"? Does it mean the a collision of the projectile and the target with the two centers of mass perfectly aligned? Does it mean anything but a "clean miss"? Probably something in between for the vast majority if cases. This has huge implications for size of projectile. If you require just grazing the target, having a bigger projectile is an advantage, whereas requiring not a single part of the projectile to be outside the "silhouette" of the target, it's actually a disadvantage (since you have to hit further from the perceived "edge" of the target to account for the increased projectile size).
In GURPS, a "hit" is any launched attack that has the potential to do damage or deliver an effect. It is not defined by where or how the target is struck.

Quote:
If I launch either single pebbles (SM-6) or boulders (SM6) at a target with my giant catapult (it's special purpose to handle both -- dont ask), it seems counterintuitive to me to have the projectile size be irrelevant -- at least not for a sufficiently small target.
Then you're dealing with "area-effect attacks," and there are already rules for these on page B413.
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:34 AM   #12
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Own SM and ranged

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
Yeah, it's a bit sloppy when I say "range". What I mean is the compounded estimate of primarily angular size, and I think that what's bothering me is attacker size. Or, more specifically, projectile size.

Also, what's a "hit"? Does it mean the a collision of the projectile and the target with the two centers of mass perfectly aligned? Does it mean anything but a "clean miss"? Probably something in between for the vast majority if cases. This has huge implications for size of projectile. If you require just grazing the target, having a bigger projectile is an advantage, whereas requiring not a single part of the projectile to be outside the "silhouette" of the target, it's actually a disadvantage (since you have to hit further from the perceived "edge" of the target to account for the increased projectile size).
Something I considered (but ultimately discarded) for a houserule was the idea that the higher the MoS on a ranged attack, the closer to center of mass you were, scaling with SSR. The easiest way to visualize this is with concentric rings. Consider an SM+0 sphere (so 1 yard diameter). MoS 0 is enough to hit that sphere, but would not have hit an SM-1 sphere (0.7 yard diameter) in the same location. So, that means it hit somewhere between the edges of the two. Similarly, MoS 1 would have hit an SM-1 sphere, but would not have an SM-2 one (0.5 yard diameter), and so forth. With an SM+0 target, MoS 0 has a range of anywhere from 0.35 yards and 0.5 yards it could hit, for a range of 0.15 yards - around 5.4", or just shy of 140mm. You have to have a pretty huge round (I think there are some 140mm antitank weapons out there) or a really small target before size of it is likely to have much effect on whether it hits, and before "not all of it hit" becomes a serious concern.

And, of course, GURPS doesn't work like the above, with any hit (unless using T-Bone's optional "Graze" rule) being capable of being a straight-on, center-of-mass shot - or a glancing hit. This is primarily dependent on the result of the damage roll, although there can be other rolls that come into play (if using the optional rule that all Torso shots have a 1-in-6 chance of hitting the Vitals, you could roll MoS 0, then a 1 to hit the Vitals, then maximum damage, which the GM may well interpret as a direct hit to the heart - particularly if the target fails their death check by enough to die outright).

Personally, I'd be inclined to say projectile size is irrelevant to hitting the target until it's larger than the target, at which point you can use the SM of the projectile instead - you don't need to hit the target, you just need to hit an area the size of the projectile that includes the target. Optionally, when the projectile is larger than the target, it may be appropriate to resolve things using the rules for collisions rather than the normal damage value for the projectile. As for projectiles that are close in size having a chance to not hit the target with the entire projectile, well, that's a good justification for a low damage roll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
Another thing I came to think about is regarding the "no bonus when closer point set to own SM"; shouldn't it be based on the target SM instead? For instance, I'm waving around my hand as though aiming a gun, and I imagine that if I'm SM0 and firing at an SM0 door, I likely wont get a benefit from being closer than 2 yards. However, if I'm firing at an SM-6 painting hanging on the door, being closer probably would help (up to, say, a tenth of that distance). If I'm firing at the SM6 wall the door is part of, it might not help being closer than 20 yards. Wouldn't this hold during stress/combat as well? Of course, at small enough range, the reach of the arm and the weapon or equivalent start becoming relevant.
GURPS skews toward "under stress" use of skills and the like. In combat, the target being easier to hit closer than 2 yards away (for a human) is countered by the penalty involved in trying to have your weapon accurately track a target that's so incredibly close. In a calmer environment, a bonus for getting really close may be appropriate - perhaps allowing you to reduce the penalty based on target size down to +0 - although I'd probably just use the rules for Telegraphic Attack. At least, that's my take on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeiLin View Post
I like the idea of this, but it might be better to let it be [▒1] per ▒1% ST (since it will no longer match to even multiples of 10). Any feedback from how it actually plays out?
Certainly, break it up however you see fit. I stuck with multiples of [10] simply so you don't end up with a case where the components of ST have fractional values. And really, it was just something I was musing over - now that I've written it out, I feel it would be a bad idea, and it would be better to just give SM a point value (but still get rid of that ST discount). That's a discussion for another thread, however.
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Last edited by Varyon; 12-03-2020 at 07:38 AM.
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