A Question of Strength.

[Flyndaran]

I think a big issue is that Lifting skill follows a linear path for something most of us probably agree comes with a serious case of diminishing returns.
Other skills can easily be adjusted with more or less penalties for use. Lifting is too simple for those methods.

3rd ed. had some things increase in cost geometrically. I fully understand and agree with why it was changed, but it ended up leading to this issue of requiring some way to institute maximum levels for those that care about limits not directly related to over all character point value.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That assumes you have a set maximum lift that you can never exceed and will reliably achieve if only you are completely trained. This is not true. For one thing what you can actually lift is actually influenced by the amount of pain you can endure, and the amount of pain you can endure is influenced by how much adrenalin is in your system.

There's a limit to what you can lift without damage. There's also a higher limit if you're willing to endure damage. Adrenaline increases your willingness to take damage.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I

3rd ed. had some things increase in cost geometrically. .

Actually, the late 3e Lifting Skill added 1/10 your Skill level to your ST for purposes of lifting only. That worked out to 10% at "normal" levels of Skill and 20% at extraordinary levels.

The 4e version of this would probably be a Perk. "+10% to the amount you can lift.".

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That assumes you have a set maximum lift that you can never exceed and will reliably achieve if only you are completely trained. This is not true. For one thing what you can actually lift is actually influenced by the amount of pain you can endure, and the amount of pain you can endure is influenced by how much adrenalin is in your system.

I would add that some days you're just tougher and/or stronger due to a near infinite number of variables outside of your control.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Actually, the late 3e Lifting Skill added 1/10 your Skill level to your ST for purposes of lifting only. That worked out to 10% at "normal" levels of Skill and 20% at extraordinary levels.

The 4e version of this would probably be a Perk. "+10% to the amount you can lift.".

Ooh. My mistake. I guess I finally internalized 4th ed. It only took me how many years?
Still I would prefer Lifting skill to be more about resistance to injury when performing near one's maximum. But that would likely be too fiddly for nearly every type of game.
It's not like weightlifting usually trains for awkwardly shaped objects common to adventurers' needs.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

It's not like weightlifting usually trains for awkwardly shaped objects common to adventurers' needs.

No, though movers do. Clearly we should be rolling freight handling to lift extra.

[Flyndaran]

That is why I changed my initial "ever" to merely "usually".
While I have very minimal knowledge of common weight lifting, I have zero experience with professional moving.
Any poster here have experience with that and how it may or may not differ with classic weight room lifting?

[JazzJedi]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That is why I changed my initial "ever" to merely "usually".
While I have very minimal knowledge of common weight lifting, I have zero experience with professional moving.
Any poster here have experience with that and how it may or may not differ with classic weight room lifting?

Like the Hiking skill, I would say that a successful Freight Handling skill roll would increase your efficiency by 20%. It's not that you are stronger, but more efficient at moving furniture and objects, and carrying them in pairs, up and down stairs, etc. This translating into a 20% bonus to how much you can move in a given time makes sense to me. Or maybe use MoS x 5%.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by JazzJedi

Like the Hiking skill, I would say that a successful Freight Handling skill roll would increase your efficiency by 20%.

I would be tempted by just "make a freight handling roll to successfully move the thing". When two workmen came by to replace the refrigerator in a third floor apartment, it took them twenty minutes. I suspect if I'd just grabbed a couple friends (they were likely individually stronger than me) and attempted the same thing, it would have taken upwards of an hour with a considerable risk of injury.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

. . . I have zero experience with professional moving. Any poster here have experience with that and how it may or may not differ with classic weight room lifting?

Having observed a few movers at work, they have much less time available than competitive weight lifters, although they aren't usually lifting things near their maximum capacity. They spend a lot of time lifting and carrying and are good at walking with heavy loads. The trade presumably builds Arm ST, because their huge muscular arms are distinctive. Being fat does not seem to be a problem for them.