Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-30-2008, 03:01 AM   #21
nik1979
 
nik1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Philippines, Makati
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClayDowling
The first thing to remember is that GURPS isn't one of those games that's ready to go right out of the box. You can't just start rolling up characters after reading the first couple of chapters.

If you're the game master, be prepared to set up a framework for your players to design their characters in. You'll have to make up some character concepts that you think are appropriate to the kind of game you want to play. You can codify those concepts as templates (if you get the Basic Set). You also need to set out what's encouraged in character design, and what is forbidden.

I like the way this points out what makes it so different from DnD. It may sound like it is a lot of work (but it doesnt have to be), it is about how much power you have over the rules as a GM. You're not just a GM your almost a fully fledged game designer, because it is a generic universal rp system. You (the GM) dictate the universe, reality and style of play.

You as a GM are not at the mercy of every new expansion or every new deadly combo that comes around every month. You're neither a killjoy for not allowing certain rules, simply because each gm actually creates a unique game and there is none to compare with.

GURPS books are not just there to fill your world, but there to help you fill them up with as much detail as you could possibly want. The great thing about detail is that you don't have to pick it up, but it is at least there if you want/need it.

the thing that makes DnD easy to use is because you have a set of pre-simplifed archetypes and options. the thing about gurps is that, you have a ton of detail, choose the details important to you and it will run just as fast and the way YOU want it. If you can't make a decision, you've got the forum.
__________________
GMing Blog
MIB#2428
nik1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2008, 07:05 AM   #22
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrash
I agree with all of the advice you've received so far, except this one. To be an equal challenge, NPCs should outnumber PCs by at least 2:1; 3:1 is better. This does slow combat down considerably, as mlangsdorf mentioned.

The reason, however, is what zorg said about tactics. No matter how many NPCs there are, yours is the only mind behind them. Your NPCs are faced with some number of PCs, each of them with a player diligently making the most of their capabilities. You need some offset, in strength, numbers, or special abilities, to make up for the fact that you can't think of everything at once.
In a single fight against equal foes, 3:1 odds against the PCs is a very hard fight in my experience. Even 3 waves of 1:1 fights with little time to rest/heal is going to be pretty hard.

GURPS combat is swingy enough, and has so many emergent possibilities, that it can be hard to predict even if you're experienced. So for a beginning GM, I'd advise being conservative. Send in a balanced looking, or even slightly weak fight, and add reinforcements if you need to. Don't plan for an overwhelming fight unless you're fairly sure of the capabilities of both the NPCs and the PCs.

Funniest example of just how odd GURPS combat can be: in my Dungeon Fantasy game, the 6 delvers entered a tomb and were set upon by fiendish dire rats. The rats were fodder and I expected them to be dispatched in about 4 seconds with no significant casualties. However, the Barbarian critically failed his identification roll and thought they were rust rats - and the rest of the delvers believed him. Much to the annoyance of the mage, who knew better. So instead of using their heavily enchanted, bonded, weapon mastered primary weapons, they went after the rats with hands and feet... and took massive injury in the process, including the mage getting overwhelmed.

Players do things the GM doesn't expect. That can be good and bad.
mlangsdorf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2008, 12:12 PM   #23
joelbf
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

If you plan to GM a modern game I can't recommend GURPS Action 1: Heroes and GURPS Action 2: Exploits enough.

Action 1 gives you 13 very usable templates that lets your players create almost any action hero they can imagine (except the lonly über hero, since he/she wouldn't be any fun for the other players). They include lots of detail on what you need to make a playable action hero. Also guns and gear is included.

Action 2 is more of a howto for the GM. It collects all the rules and options you might want to use in an action game, and gives recommendations on which options to use and which to skip.

I use both a lot in my action-spy-soldier space campaign set in 2100.
joelbf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 03:30 AM   #24
Johnny Angel
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

I appreciate all the advice.

I talked to one of the guys who I normally play D&D with, and I asked what sort of games he would be interested in playing if we were to try something other than D&D. I told him that I was looking into trying a new system, but that I wasn't sure what sort of genre the group would be interested in. He expressed that adventuring into space was really the only thing he'd not be interested in, but he did mention being interested in something similar to Fallout (which is somewhat funny since Fallout was based on the GURPs system from what I understand.) So, basically, I think that so far it seems as though anything from the D&D/medieval fantasy tech level and genre to the near future is what I'm looking at. He passingly mentioned the wild west and doing something similar to the old tv show Kung Fu, so that's something that I'll keep in mind too.

To clarify something that I said earlier, I'm not exactly trying to duplicate D&D within GURPs. I suppose what I meant was that there are certain things which D&D portrays differently than GURPs does. Kobolds are one readily apparent example. GURPs portrays kobolds as being some sort of short, stumpy, and mentally slow humans from what I gather. D&D portrays kobolds as being small halfling sized reptilians who may or may not have draconic ancestry (some of them claim to.) They're mainly an annoyance, but underestimating them can be deadly. Likewise, goblins seem to be portrayed much differently. I know that as a GM I'm free to build my world any way that I want, and I need not follow the preset ideals of either D&D or GURPs or any other setting, but I think that if I keep at least some similar concepts that it will be less of an adjustment for some of my friends.

D&D kobold

I was finally able to get the GURPs lite pdf. For a few days I was having trouble getting it to download, but it finally worked. I think I might run through a few encounters with those rules and see how things go.

One thing I'm confused about is how it's considered a disadvantage for a PC to have racial intolerance toward someone. I understand that ideally, as the DM, I'm supposed to enforce those such things, but I'd prefer that a player roleplay their character as they see fit and not be forced to have their character act a certain way simply because I say they are required to act that way. When it comes to things such as greed, bloodlust, and lecherousness I can somewhat understand, and I don't have a problem enforcing those, but I think I would feel uncomfortable telling a dwarf pc that he's not allowed to be friends with an elf pc or that he's required to react in a negative way toward elves (for an example.) When creating a race I would be sure to have information available which discusses that race's outlook on things, but I'd prefer that the player roleplay those things willingly and not be forced to do so. If the player roleplays their character differently then I would imagine they would have a reason for thinking differently than a typical member of their race.
Johnny Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 04:15 AM   #25
Nymdok
 
Nymdok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angel
One thing I'm confused about is how it's considered a disadvantage for a PC to have racial intolerance toward someone.
Generally, anything that limits your options as a player is considered a disadvantage. For example, Honesty, although viewed favorably in most societies, is a dissad in GURPS as it limits your ability to lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angel
...but I think I would feel uncomfortable telling a dwarf pc that he's not allowed to be friends with an elf pc or that he's required to react in a negative way toward elves (for an example.)
Its a mental dissad. Those are pretty easily bought off (in this case by not taking the dissad to begin with).

As its a mental dissad, you can buy it at different levels(B120-121) all the way down to the quirk level.

another option is to offset it with a different and appropriate dissad. For example Chummy or Xenophilia with the elves limiter.

If you really think its out of line, make him buy an unusual background that explains his unusual favor towards the race.

Finally, dont forget that animosity is normally a 2 way street and just because THIS dwarf likes elves doesnt mean THEY like him!


Nymdok
Nymdok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 05:11 AM   #26
Mgellis
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Flushing, Michigan
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angel
I used to play mainly D&D, but I find myself becoming more and more discontent with the new edition of that product. It's not a bad game; it just caters to a different style of gaming than what I would like. After considering a few different roleplaying games (Hero, Warhammer, etc) I have decided that GURPs looks like something that will be far more satisfying for me to spend my leisure time with than the current edition of D&D. I really have no idea where to start when it comes to GURPs though. What are some things I should know? What adjustments will I have to make to go from a D&D mindset to a GURPs mindset?

One thing in particular that I've noticed that is different is that in D&D rolling high is good; from what I've seen in GURPs, rolling low is good in GURPs.
1. Welcome to GURPS.

2. Welcome to the forums. Please keep posting your questions. There is a really good group of people here who will try to answer your questions. (This even includes some of the authors of the books.)

3. When you start out, keep it simple. In fact, you might want to run a couple of "practice sessions" with very simple "throw-away" characters to get a feel for how things work, how dangerous combat is, etc. (If these early characters survive and players like them, they can always be used as the foundation for more fleshed out characters.) If you and your whole group is learning GURPS at the same time, you want to start slow. One of the things I like about GURPS is that it is enormously flexible and robust; it will let you create almost any kind of character and campaign you can imagine, but it's also easy to get lost in all those options.

4. Practice. Even when your players aren't around, play around with the system. Build sample characters. Do a few practice runs of using powers or combat between NPCs and try out different options.

5. Remember that actual gameplay in GURPS is usually VERY simple. Usually, roll low to do something well; roll high to hurt something badly after you hit it. That's about all you have to remember most of the time.

I hope this helps.

Mark
Mgellis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 08:14 AM   #27
Turhan's Bey Company
Aluminated
 
Turhan's Bey Company's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: East of the moon, west of the stars, close to buses and shopping
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angel
I think I would feel uncomfortable telling a dwarf pc that he's not allowed to be friends with an elf pc or that he's required to react in a negative way toward elves (for an example.)
You don't have to. Not directly, anyway. Many disads are essentially a contract with the GM. They say "I will act in such-and-such a way which will be inconvenient for my character, and in return I get some points." When and how they surface is, to some extent, up to the player. However, as GM, you can enforce the contract by handing out extra points in the course of play.

In practice, it works something like this: Say a character has intolerance against elves. In the course of play, he runs into some and has an entirely friendly interaction with them. After the game, when you're handing out points to reward the players for good roleplaying, you give him fewer points, noting that he didn't play his disadvantages. He can play his character as he wants to without direct interference from you, but because he's not playing according to what he set out on his character sheet, he's eventually docked for doing so. Think of it as not getting XP for a character acting contrary to his alignment.
__________________
I've been making pointlessly shiny things, and I've got some gaming-related stuff as well as 3d printing designs.

Buy my Warehouse 23 stuff, dammit!
Turhan's Bey Company is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 08:18 AM   #28
jspade
 
jspade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Top of the deck
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angel
One thing I'm confused about is how it's considered a disadvantage for a PC to have racial intolerance toward someone. I understand that ideally, as the DM, I'm supposed to enforce those such things, but I'd prefer that a player roleplay their character as they see fit and not be forced to have their character act a certain way simply because I say they are required to act that way.
The key here is that the player is not required to take the Intolerance disadvantage. If they do, you as GM can reasonably expect them to play a character who is intolerant. This gives you some behavior you can plan on; if a player character has Intolerance (Kobolds), you can introduce a Kobold NPC and be reasonably assured that that player character will react negatively. This helps me a lot in planning. It's not so much you forcing the player to play his character inappropriately, as you holding him to the promise he made (in exchange for character points) to play his character a certain way.

GURPS character creation overall is much more a negotiation between player and GM than D&D character creation. Just because rules exist for me to be a three-armed, telepathic, blind, mute, extraterrestrial were-ocelot does not mean I'm allowed to be. If you're not comfortable with racially intolerant PCs in your game, you can forbid them (or at least give no points for the disadvantage). I often tell players, "No, you can't have that disadvantage, but if you really must you can take a related Quirk." Or forbid advantages – I very seldom allow Serendipity for example, because I find it to be too much work for me as GM.
__________________
[][] C. Lee Davis
© 2014 C. Lee Davis, some rights reserved
jspade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 09:27 AM   #29
Johnny Angel
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

I guess the racial intolerance quirk makes more sense now that I've read some of your explanations for it. The player is getting points for having it; that's reason why the GM (I'm so used to typing and saying DM that GM feels weird) is enforcing it.


I think that after looking at the GURPs rules that I might be better of trying to start out with a modern campaign instead of a fantasy one. The reason I think that is because I feel that it might be easier to learn the rules if the things that are available in game are things which are more familiar to me (i.e. guns, ammo, cars, etc.) I don't feel that I know the GURPs rules well enough to fully realize the vision of my fantasy world.

On the note of a modern campaign: I think what I have in mind is a pre-apocolypse campaign. What I mean is that it would take place prior to and during the earth shattering event which most post-apocolyptic campaigns take place after. One idea I have involves what would happen if for some reason the US Government broke down (or something similar) and a state of semi-anarchy broke out. By "semi-anarchy" I mean that there would still be a vague sense of government authorities such as police and perhaps some military, but they wouldn't have the control that they would in normal circumstances. The campaign would involve my friends playing idealized versions of themselves and trying to survive in a world gone mad. Basically the idea behind the campaign would be to figure out a way to justify them having guns, ammo, and various other things without having to always worry about the law and the legal ramifications that doing certain actions would have in real life.
Johnny Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2008, 10:23 AM   #30
Gold & Appel Inc
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: One Mile Up
Default Re: New to GURPs; not sure where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angel
I guess the racial intolerance quirk makes more sense now that I've read some of your explanations for it. The player is getting points for having it; that's reason why the GM (I'm so used to typing and saying DM that GM feels weird) is enforcing it.
If it really bothers you, don't put it on the racial templates. Or let them buy it off freely as suggested upthread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angel
On the note of a modern campaign: I think what I have in mind is a pre-apocolypse campaign. What I mean is that it would take place prior to and during the earth shattering event which most post-apocolyptic campaigns take place after. One idea I have involves what would happen if for some reason the US Government broke down (or something similar) and a state of semi-anarchy broke out. By "semi-anarchy" I mean that there would still be a vague sense of government authorities such as police and perhaps some military, but they wouldn't have the control that they would in normal circumstances.
Sounds like you want a pessimistic take on the Peak Oil Crisis. Total anarchy in the Third World, but modern industrial nations more-or-less keep their feces together with lots of food riots, uninvestigated murders, and other small-scale civil unrest, plus greatly reduced capacity for international force projection, but also enough hoarded fuel for what's left of the armed forces (PC Alert) to prevent an easy coup by angry civilian rebels a couple more skipped meals and long walks in the sun away from Mad Max Land (PC Alert; hockey masks optional), and some bold, square-jawed scientists (PC Alert) desperately trying to get energy alternatives online (details varying widely from new fission plants to technobabble pixie dust that can preserve Car Culture depending on how much sci fi you want here) and modernize the infrastructure to handle it while there's still time and resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Angel
The campaign would involve my friends playing idealized versions of themselves [snip]
Careful with this one, especially in a dark, violent campaign. Some players can handle seeing Idealized Self take a bullet to the head and some can't.
Gold & Appel Inc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gurps recruitment, gurps revival, introductions to gurps

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.