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Old 02-19-2022, 07:44 PM   #41
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Tech Level news: so, you can buy a Gauss Rifle now

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Originally Posted by Þorkell View Post
Can you translate that to non-military?
When I received a call for fire by counterbattery radar it was in a format that's precise to within 1m. I don't actually know if the radar is that precise, or if the operators generate a 10 digit grid by interpolation or something . Also maybe I am remembering wrong because that's a thing too.

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Old 02-19-2022, 09:54 PM   #42
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SNIP I don't actually know if the radar is that precise, or if the operators generate a 10 digit grid by interpolation or something . SNIP
While Iīm strictly civilian I had to learn something about military capabilities and tactics out of necessity. In the end the radar is more than precise enough to locate a flying grenade better than 1 m. The catch is the radar needs a line of sight, and canīt look beyond the horizon. So it has to interpolate the firing position a bit. But in the end itīs precise enough to dump the own grenades inside their killrange of the emeny artillery / mortars.

The last time I had to read about that was a decade ago, and tech was making rapid progress as well as the mathematical methods and the computer hardware. Also connecting sevral counter radars together give a much closer resolution. So I would guess, the resolution now is even better.
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Old 02-20-2022, 02:30 AM   #43
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The last time I had to read about that was a decade ago, and tech was making rapid progress as well as the mathematical methods and the computer hardware. Also connecting sevral counter radars together give a much closer resolution. So I would guess, the resolution now is even better.
Yes, I would guess so, I have not played around with counter battery radars, but the counter sniper radar is able to indicate the exact window the shot came from on the screen, so I would assume tracking larger objects like shells are easier to pinpoint very accurately as their trajectory is easy enough to calculate backwards.
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Old 02-20-2022, 06:34 PM   #44
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So we need shells that can maneuver a little and change course just after being fired so you can't get a exact back plot.
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Old 02-20-2022, 07:22 PM   #45
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So we need shells that can maneuver a little and change course just after being fired so you can't get a exact back plot.
Or just make sure there's nothing valuable at the launch point -- disposable or highly mobile launchers.
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Old 02-20-2022, 07:28 PM   #46
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So we need shells that can maneuver a little and change course just after being fired so you can't get a exact back plot.
That could hide the exact firing position - a bit. The problem is to make it really useful it has to be varied the course before it is detected. That may possible for missiles or drones but not for classical shells. Because counter fire radar has to have a line of sight to get a detection and estimation of firing position, and thatīs once the projectile reaches a certain hight. Depending on the terrain it can be a couple of meters in a flat desert, to the moment it flies over that hill there. Most missiles that follow terrain are still started firing upward and go into horizontal flight after reaching enough speed, Sometimes that is a few dozen meters high, the bigger the missile the higher they go before altering course. Therefore they may be detected before even going horizontal.

A missile launchend and flying first just over the tress and following the terrain will hardly be detectable by such a device. It has a reason why combat pilots fly for certain mission typs as close to the ground as possible.

That all goes of course for radar or laser detection and chemical propelled ammo.

Once you change to a EM launcher you can just triangulate the source of the electromagnetic pulse, completely passive.

Same goes for sniper detection devices most use mikes to triangulate the source of the shot, and yes silencers help a bit but you can tell from which building the shot came. The only way to hide a single shot for such systems I know is to hide it in a explosion or a lot of other shots, so the system is either overwhelmed and canīt trace back all the shotīs or the bang goes under in the big boom of said explosion. Of course a smart programmer would give the detection system a library of the sound profile of all available weapons, especially the ones used by the enemy, so the own fire doesnīt clog the processor of the detector.

I was thinking about using compressed gas to make the launch, it avoids the bang, but still is detectable by radar or laser.

Personally if you want a undetected launch and hit a KNOWN fixed postion, I would us a cheap drone, equip it with inertial navigation and a laser / camera to measure the altitude, pack it with explosives and there you go. Nearly undetectable before impact and not to trace. You just need to program in the targetīs position and the start position and activate it. Thatīs it! Such a drone wouldnīd weight much more than a 80 mm mortar shell and can brought by a single foot soldier to the needed starting location, which can for actual drones even farer away than the range of a mortar. Look at the speed and max flight time of a semiprofessional photo drone and you know what Iīm talking about.

Even worse the now used systems in cars use quite advanced and cheap components, which are able to tell street signs from advertises or normal cars from say a ambulance. you just need to feed it with data about the own and enemys forces to avoid hitting unwanted targets. So a gadgeteer can easily make itīs own target seeking loitering ammo.
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Old 02-20-2022, 08:22 PM   #47
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Default Re: Tech Level news: so, you can buy a Gauss Rifle now

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Or just make sure there's nothing valuable at the launch point -- disposable or highly mobile launchers.
You need to be fast. You have a couple of minutes plus time on target to clear the kill radius.
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Old 02-21-2022, 06:36 AM   #48
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Or just make sure there's nothing valuable at the launch point -- disposable or highly mobile launchers.
Modern irregular forces can sometimes get away with purposefully launching from somewhere that's too valuable to attack. For example, if you launch from a hospital, OpFor basically has the choices of letting you continue to shell them, sending in troops to try to identify and stop you (difficult against irregular forces, who by definition can simply fade into the crowd of civilians - and attack from within said crowd), or taking a massive PR hit from shelling such an important building (particularly if it's currently occupied by patients/students), none of which are likely to end well for them.
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Old 02-21-2022, 10:39 AM   #49
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Modern irregular forces can sometimes get away with purposefully launching from somewhere that's too valuable to attack. For example, if you launch from a hospital, OpFor basically has the choices of letting you continue to shell them, sending in troops to try to identify and stop you (difficult against irregular forces, who by definition can simply fade into the crowd of civilians - and attack from within said crowd), or taking a massive PR hit from shelling such an important building (particularly if it's currently occupied by patients/students), none of which are likely to end well for them.
Sure, but that and other dirty tricks works only in a low intensity war or conflict where the political and military who are attacked this way, either have to follow international law and rules of engagement or have to take the public opinion into account. And think that the negative consequences of said pubic opinion or laws are bigger than the military advantage of fighting back. Once the calculation goes the other way they WILL shell the hospital.

To be blunt even the most democratic and peace loving gouvernmernts would in a real all out War like a hopefully far away WWIII ignore this completely. A lot of democratic gouvernments ignore them even today if it fits their purpose. Not to speak about rogue states who ignore them completely.

Last edited by Willy; 02-21-2022 at 10:39 AM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 02-21-2022, 08:15 PM   #50
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Default Re: Tech Level news: so, you can buy a Gauss Rifle now

So - how effective would those UT radscanners be when the EM munitions start sporting radar and laser absorptive materials to defeat the counter-battery fire's active measures?

What happens when the first rounds fired from EM guns are designed to triangulate the active measures and create an opportunity for bringing fire on the counter-battery coordinates? Passive systems would come to the fore would they not?
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