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Old 10-30-2021, 01:38 PM   #41
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Originally Posted by tomc View Post
"A Great Hammer to the noggin will disarm just about anybody." - possible dwarven proverb
Great hammer averages 2.5 damage against Tollenkar, as long as he's holding that staff. So it's not even a stun.
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Old 10-30-2021, 08:40 PM   #42
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Great hammer averages 2.5 damage against Tollenkar, as long as he's holding that staff. So it's not even a stun.
How about an extra fine flaming great hammer dropped from behind by a gargoyle in flight? ;)
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Old 10-30-2021, 08:53 PM   #43
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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How about an extra fine flaming great hammer dropped from behind by a gargoyle in flight? ;)
Not fired by a crossbow?
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Old 10-31-2021, 06:08 AM   #44
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Ordinary whip: $30
Very fine dagger doing an expert shrew blow in HTH: $200
Tollenkar in two pieces: priceless
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Old 10-31-2021, 08:00 AM   #45
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

This is a bit off the main topic, but it's a rare character I'd give Knife Expert to. There's no better weapons to switch to as ST improves. It works for halflings and goblins who don't expect to get much better weapons, I guess.
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Old 10-31-2021, 03:07 PM   #46
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
If it's a Staff II+ then the drop weapon result will be ignored.
The easy way in the rules to disarm a certain uber wizard of greater Dran is to whip him to the ground then engage in HTH. This forces a drop weapon by the HTH rules at ITL 116 and he loses all of his staff abilities. He still has an insanely high ST level for a wizard under the Legacy rules, so expect him to get off a few spells anyway.
The next step is that all wizards (who worry about close combat) trade in their sticks for silver dagger staves. In which case we have to ask if a pin disarms a dagger or not?
I would think that if Staff II makes the staff immune to the Quarterstaff disarm drop weapon result, it would also make the staff immune to the HTH drop weapon results.
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Old 10-31-2021, 04:18 PM   #47
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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I would think that if Staff II makes the staff immune to the Quarterstaff disarm drop weapon result, it would also make the staff immune to the HTH drop weapon results.
Immunity to disarming is not listed under the description of staves II+.
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Old 10-31-2021, 04:41 PM   #48
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Another possible Staff countermeasure is the Telekinesis spell. TFT's RAW don't allow for wresting an out of someone's hand without the use of Quarterstaff or special talents like Weapon Master, but it seems reasonable that one could telekinetically grab hold of someone's weapon and attempt to wrest it out of their grip. I present some thoughts on how one might do this on my blog, but they are a departure from RAW.

How would you adjudicate an attempt to pull a wizard's staff from their grip through the use of Telekinesis?
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Old 10-31-2021, 04:44 PM   #49
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

HTH drop is special since a non-dagger weapon in HTH is useless and even an obstacle for yourself.

Staff II states, "Your staff is now immune to Drop Weapon and Break Weapon spells and critical failures." (ITL 23)

Neither Quarterstaff disarm nor engaging in HTH would count as those. So, it looks like Staff II+ could still be disarmed by the quarterstaff (some may disagree). And definitely by HTH (none should disagree).
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Old 10-31-2021, 04:59 PM   #50
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
How would you adjudicate an attempt to pull a wizard's staff from their grip through the use of Telekinesis?
I like this.

"An invisible hand grabs attempts to snatch your weapon from your grip." This is going to be a surprise. So, I would do this in two stages: 1) may be disarmed due to getting caught off guard then 2) may be disarmed by being wrested by force.

Phase 1:
- if the weapon is one handed (wands-staffs, dagger-staffs, one-handed-club-staffs, and all normal 1 handed weapons): 3/DX save by the weapon holder
- if the weapon is two handed (normal staff, two-handed-club-staff, and all 2 handed weapons): no save needed. Two hands has an advantage verses surprise.

Phase 2:
This only applies is the weapon is still in hand
- Contest of ST, casting wizard's ST vs weapon holder's ST. This is because telekinesis behaves as if it was the casting wizard taking the action.

If the casting wizard continues to wrest it free, there is no surprise (phase 1) on any turn after the first. Not even if it was recast a few turns later (maybe).
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