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Old 10-26-2021, 03:04 PM   #21
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Page 71 gives us a full minute's assisted burn and then nine more minutes of burning on its own to bring down a door.

So don't leave your staff in a fire hex for a full minute.
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Old 10-26-2021, 03:08 PM   #22
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter von Kleinsmid View Post
The controlled use of fire to light a cigar, torch or beard is about lighting something... lightable. [ ... ] It seems to me this looks like a one-time effect that starts a fire, and the object then burns as it naturally would if touched with fire for a few seconds, so the cigar and torch keep burning...
The spell wording could easily be tightened up to make that clear. As it is, "controlled fire" is going to require adjudication.

But altering the spell description is undesirable, because it takes too much functionality away. If you can make a "controlled flame" in the hex nearby, you could make a small fire that lasts one minute in a hex with no flammable material, and that could be immensely useful.

As far as exploits go, the described use of Fire to get someone to drop a flammable object pales in comparison to what one can do with Illusion. Considering how many people seem comfortable with that, I'm surprised that anyone has a problem with this innovative use of Fire.
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Old 10-26-2021, 07:48 PM   #23
Axly Suregrip
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

So how does the Drop Weapon spell now measure up against the Fire spell.

Drop Weapon
IQ 8
Cost 1 or 2 if ST 20+
Thrown: so DX -1 for adjacent hex. But may also be done at further ranges.
Has no affect on Staff class II.

Fire cast on weapons
IQ 9
Cost 1 (always regardless of ST)
Creation: must be within 1 hex range but no DX penalty.
Would case a wizard to drop a Staff class II+.

The only upside to the Drop Weapon spell is that it may be attempted at range greater than 1 hex.

I think I would allow the player to get away with this the first time but let him know the next time there will be saving rolls. The character holding the item gets 3/IQ save to suppress his reflex to drop the weapon and if he makes the save he may elect to continue to hold it but take 1 point of damage.

Then again, getting your beard on fire should also cause you to drop everything to save your own face. Even if it is only 1 point of damage it will be a reflex.

I just hate to see a novel use of a spell make another spell become totally useless.
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Old 10-26-2021, 07:56 PM   #24
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

I'm not sure that this novel use makes drop weapon useless. Drop weapon is often used for metal weapons and one could decide fire couldn't do that.

I suppose one question is whether fire cast in this way would work as a combination of drop weapon/break weapon for wooden weapons. I'd reckon that the weapon might be damaged, but wouldn't be broken unless it burns for a few turns. (Maybe a bow string would quickly burn, but at least these should be easily changed between fights.)

I like the option to hold onto the weapon with a 3/IQ roll and 1 point damage per turn. I suppose that armor either wouldn't help or would only help the first turn. Realistically, the damage is done to the hands and so the only armor that could help would be gauntlets or gloves of some sort.

Now, how long before an NPC gets the same idea as Shostak's player? Might hear cries of foul when that happens.
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Old 10-26-2021, 08:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

My interpretation is similar to Peter's. IMO the FIRE spell has two applications... create a hex (or more) of summoned magical fire lasting a minute or create an immediate fire-spark to light a specific (ideally flammable) and close-by object on fire.

What I find interesting is that, unlike BREATH FIRE and FIREBALL, there is no explicit mention in any version of FIRE about setting flammable things on fire in the description of the spell’s primary effect. Odd, no?
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Old 10-26-2021, 08:47 PM   #26
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip View Post
So how does the Drop Weapon spell now measure up against the Fire spell.
Unlike Drop Weapon, one is not required to drop a weapon that is burning. It might be instinctual to do so, but one could hold onto it and accept the consequences.
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Old 10-26-2021, 08:50 PM   #27
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
What I find interesting is that, unlike BREATH FIRE and FIREBALL, there is no explicit mention in any version of FIRE about setting flammable things on fire in the description of the spell’s primary effect. Odd, no?
Yes. The absence of that wording under Fire can give one the impression that Fire can burn someone standing in it to death without actually setting their clothes on fire.
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Old 10-27-2021, 09:19 AM   #28
Rolando
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

I think a good leather glove can withstand fire for a few turns at least.
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Old 10-28-2021, 12:06 AM   #29
Steve Plambeck
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

And then there's wrapping a fold or sleeve of the wizard's robe around it to smother the the staff before it's fully ignited. Maybe that's why so many wizards wear robes in the first place :) If it really got to be a thing, wizards would wax or polish their staves with a flame retardant, or keep them sheathed in dragon skin. And/or research a Snuff spell...
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Old 10-28-2021, 03:23 AM   #30
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Staff Countermeasures

Solid wood doesn't instantly ignite at a small spark or we wouldn't build houses out it.
But if you want yet another reason to force all wizards to use silver daggers instead then more power to you.
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