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Old 05-30-2021, 10:03 AM   #41
Icelander
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
does anyone know if there's been an enhancement produced for mind control where if you fail the contest it doesn't notify the target they're under attack, or at least requires some additional roll for them to perceive it to make it a bit harder? kinda wondering if "no signature" might cover it but not sure
I use the Low Signature rules, which was clarified in some book or another (maybe Psionic Powers) to exist in a psychic signature version.
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Old 05-30-2021, 10:05 AM   #42
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
I use the Low Signature rules, which was clarified in some book or another (maybe Psionic Powers) to exist in a psychic signature version.
if there's no basic roll to penalize like perception then how do we apply a penalty to the roll though?

maybe there should be some kind of basic IQ roll (even at a +10 bonus) for this? I imagine perhaps smarter folk might be more aware that someone's trying to mind control them...

Kind of like everyone gets Detect (failed attempts to mind control me) as a free advantage?
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Old 05-30-2021, 10:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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if there's no basic roll to penalize like perception then how do we apply a penalty to the roll though?

maybe there should be some kind of basic IQ roll (even at a +10 bonus) for this? I imagine perhaps smarter folk might be more aware that someone's trying to mind control them...

Kind of like everyone gets Detect (failed attempts to mind control me) as a free advantage?
The rules on how to notice failed rolls are definitely in Psionic Powers.
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Old 05-30-2021, 11:21 AM   #44
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Snip.
I'm not saying such characters are banned in my campaigns - I don't really do bans for the most part. But character generation is a very cooperative and interactive process for me an my players and the players mostly would try to steer someone's concept away from something like that. Same with me. It's just not something my crew likes to deal with because of the potential of agency loss. It's also why I can pull out a mind-controlling villain as a BBEG and the PCs will pursue the hell out of it most times. (I've only done this twice, but in both cases the PCs dropped everything and went after the baddie with all they had.)
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Old 05-30-2021, 07:30 PM   #45
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
The rules on how to notice failed rolls are definitely in Psionic Powers.
Do you mean page 12's "Inside a Crowded Mind" regarding Telereceive sort of having a limited Detect built into it?

This makes me wonder if you could use Telereceive to target your OWN mind for the purposes of detecting external things operating on it.

This also makes me wonder if there's a difference between passive use (not expecting mind control but noticing it) and active use (specifically using Telereceive to detect Mind Control)

If you could pass a Telereceive roll by targeting your own mind (knowing someone is poking around there) that could probably be of some help in dealing with upgrading you from the usual "will remember everything he did, but not recall why he did it"

Maybe even the "remembers everything he did, but he is convinced that he chose to do so" inflicted by the Rationalization enhancement? If this is possible too then it should be harder.

"No Memory" enhancement should probably utterly prevent self-rescue though, since that seems like you're basically unconscious while controlled, so you wouldn't be able to self-target w/ Telereceive if that were possible...

Unless of course your Telereceive had something like Reflexive or Uncontrollable and could self-operate? Or if you had something like Compartmentalized Mind (not sure how that interacts with Mind Control)

The "drive out the attacking psi" sounds like a HUGE upgrade for Telereceive... that's in a way similar to "Negated Advantage" except you're only negating the effects of one instance of using Mind Control, not the advantage itself.

It actually makes me wonder if that's too strong.

PP16 introduced the "Interruption" modifier for Neutralize which (unlike One Power in Basic Set, or One Ability in Powers) focuses on effects of a power's use (rather than the ability to use)

It even includes the example "you could force a telepath out of someoneĺs
head" so why should we give that out for free with Telereceive when it could instead be priced as an Alternate Ability?

This is -50% and if we combined it with the -80% for One Ability that's -130% so you could even take Reliable 10 +50% on it and it would only cost 10 points normally, and 1/5 cost (2 points) as an alternative ability to Telesend.
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Old 05-31-2021, 01:57 AM   #46
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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How do you think they might feel about an 'all mind-controller party' game? More generally, has anyone reading this seen or done a game where most or all of the party had some form of mind control (not necessarily the same form) as a significant ability?

(My first thought is a party of paranoid telepaths, but why would a paranoid telepath willingly and knowingly go near another telepath capable of mind-control? I mean, it could be that they all have strong mind shields, but that's an easy answer.)
Not in GURPS, but I've been part of such games, and know that many others play in them too. Mage the Ascension (2/3 of our party had Mind 3) and Vampire the Masquerade (it's common for parties to have some Dominate and Presence). I don't recall seeing people back away from mind-controlling party members in either of these.
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Old 05-31-2021, 04:08 PM   #47
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

I disagree with the view that in a Slave Society every owner will want all their slaves to be magically conditioned.

Mind Control Mages charge money for each procedure and have ways of reacting badly if you try to stiff them.

So I'd expect that every slaver will want his immediate staff to be perfectly loyal to him and protected against other people hacking their conditioning. The needed suite of spells and enchantments would cost a fair bit but it would give you the knowledge that your body-guards really will take a bullet or a fireball for you, your cooks won't try to poison you and your bedmates will not try to garrotte you.

The field hands and miners can be kept in line by more traditional, less expensive means.
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Old 05-31-2021, 04:35 PM   #48
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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I disagree with the view that in a Slave Society every owner will want all their slaves to be magically conditioned.

Mind Control Mages charge money for each procedure and have ways of reacting badly if you try to stiff them.

Enslave's casting requirements look a lot like quick and dirty enchanting. At 30 energy, and $25 per energy, that's $750 per enchantment.


So Michael's list is probably good, plus some owners will want to make examples of runaways and troublemakers.
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Old 05-31-2021, 04:55 PM   #49
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by Michael Cule View Post
I disagree with the view that in a Slave Society every owner will want all their slaves to be magically conditioned.

Mind Control Mages charge money for each procedure and have ways of reacting badly if you try to stiff them.

So I'd expect that every slaver will want his immediate staff to be perfectly loyal to him and protected against other people hacking their conditioning. The needed suite of spells and enchantments would cost a fair bit but it would give you the knowledge that your body-guards really will take a bullet or a fireball for you, your cooks won't try to poison you and your bedmates will not try to garrotte you.

The field hands and miners can be kept in line by more traditional, less expensive means.
That really depends on the fact how common and reliable magic is. There is a old proverb that you have at least as much emenys as you have slaves. slaves are normally quite expensive, especially the better educated trained lot. Just number a normal slaves price is what he/ she can earn during 5 years, which by a average income of 750$ / month is a net 45K $ spending 1 or 2K into magical "help" per nose is compared to this not much.

Of course the first beneficiaries of this treatment would be your direct entourage. And a protection against mind hacking for them is only wise.

Same goes for dangerous slaves like gladiators, and potential rebels.

The rest is just a calculation, and historical slave owners could calculate, there are a lot of nauseating examples of farmers , fabiric owners and the like. Just read some books about american cotton plantages or worse cane planters in the caribic.

Chains, cells and guards are expensive, and even saving half the guards would be a more than small benefit for your pocket.

Even if you don┤t use it widespread, alone the threat serve me or your mind will be enslaved has more deterrence potential than whips and slave drivers.
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Old 05-31-2021, 05:03 PM   #50
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

Yeah, absent recent warfare with massive victories and capture of new slaves glutting the market, slaves are expensive. Each one is a comparable investment for a farm as the largest size of tractor.

If Enslave were really $750 per spell, all slaves would be controlled that way.
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