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Old 05-29-2021, 04:28 PM   #31
Plane
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
It is in general my assumption that it isn't generally possible to remove disadvantages that cost points permanently using mind editing. The mind of the subject will revert to the mean. This seems firmly based in the source material where it is extremely rare for mind alteration to produce truly permanent changes and when they do, it's rarely for the better.
One other way to look at this is that since lowering points (giving a disadvantage or removing an advantage) is supposed to be easier than boosting points (removing a disadvantage or adding an advantagE) based on the pricing of Affliction (a 1:10 ratio) if we allowed a broader use of Conditioning, it wouldn't really get out of hand if you used the same ratio.

Conditioning doesn't really recognize this (it's just as easy to remove -10, ie +10, as it is to add -10) but a tweak would be simple enough.

B69's "-1 per full -5 points of disadvantages changed" could instead be "-1 per -5 subtracted" or "-10 per +5 added" (which works out to -2 per +1)

Then you might just as easily add or remove mental advantages too.

After all, there's not really a world of difference between "I can remove fearfulness" vs "I can add fearlessness" (both improve your point value and make you resist fear better than you did before)

Or conversely between "I can add fearfulness" vs "I can subtract feasrlessness" (both lower point value and make you resist fear less)
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Old 05-29-2021, 07:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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For my players it's the loss of agency that's the problem. I don't care how consummate a roleplayer you are it *hurts* when you no longer have control over your character. Depending on the situation and the player it might hurt a little or a lot, but it still hurts. At least that's been my experience.
How do you think they might feel about an 'all mind-controller party' game? More generally, has anyone reading this seen or done a game where most or all of the party had some form of mind control (not necessarily the same form) as a significant ability?

(My first thought is a party of paranoid telepaths, but why would a paranoid telepath willingly and knowingly go near another telepath capable of mind-control? I mean, it could be that they all have strong mind shields, but that's an easy answer.)
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Old 05-29-2021, 07:54 PM   #33
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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How do you think they might feel about an 'all mind-controller party' game? More generally, has anyone reading this seen or done a game where most or all of the party had some form of mind control (not necessarily the same form) as a significant ability?
Uh, one 'Dreamweaver' who could control people and rewrite their personalities through dream conditioning, one emotion-controlling empath and one telekinetic who could puppet people. I played the former Special Forces character with peak human fitness and supersenses, but no kind of creepy powers.

The first season Big Bad was a mind-controlling hypnotist/psychiatrist.
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Old 05-29-2021, 07:58 PM   #34
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
How do you think they might feel about an 'all mind-controller party' game? More generally, has anyone reading this seen or done a game where most or all of the party had some form of mind control (not necessarily the same form) as a significant ability?

(My first thought is a party of paranoid telepaths, but why would a paranoid telepath willingly and knowingly go near another telepath capable of mind-control? I mean, it could be that they all have strong mind shields, but that's an easy answer.)
Probably squicked out to some degrees depending on the player involved.
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Old 05-30-2021, 12:30 AM   #35
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
For my players it's the loss of agency that's the problem. I don't care how consummate a roleplayer you are it *hurts* when you no longer have control over your character. Depending on the situation and the player it might hurt a little or a lot, but it still hurts. At least that's been my experience.
Of course and especially if you went a long way with this character and then comes a mind controller and thatīs it. Only to be topped if this character is than killed unneccesarry by sheer stupidity.
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Old 05-30-2021, 12:57 AM   #36
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Of course and especially if you went a long way with this character and then comes a mind controller and thatīs it. Only to be topped if this character is than killed unneccesarry by sheer stupidity.
Exactly. You can't win or lose at roleplaying games, but you can not have fun. And loss of control of your avatar within the game construct is not fun.
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Old 05-30-2021, 05:10 AM   #37
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
My players had a similar reaction in a game I ran eons ago. They found out he was one of the telepaths who could control people and the shootist in the team put a bullet in the telepath's head. No one objected.
In the occult WWII game, we captured/rescued a bunch of German magicians who between them can do significant mind control (they motivated Hess to fly to the UK, in that history). They definitely wanted out so we staged a behind-the-lines operation to evacuate them from the Wewelsburg.

I think we have them intimidated: their leader, who had been expecting the rescue, but did not know when it would happen, woke up when a PC lit a candle in his room, having opened the door and come in without waking him. He saw that the PC was a little agitated, and had blood splashes on him, but wasn't obviously wounded.
"Good to see you, but there are people here who won't want to defect ..."
"Rooms 13 to 24, corridor above here?"
"Yes?"
"They're all dead."
Those magicians are all in magic-proof cells, and Germany has surrendered. What we do with them now is not clear yet.
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On the other hand I've had PCs with Mind Control do some scary stuff. In my supers campaign, AEON. I had a PC with Mind Control basically "flashy thingie" witnesses to the team's actions so they could remain as covert as possible. That character going dark was the fear of many of the team he was on and for good reason.
The WWII campaign has one PC who can do mind control, but he is sensible enough not to try it on the other PCs, even when he's cross with us.

I've also played a Madness Dossier campaign. We did not have a wetware hacker - nobody fancied playing one - but we did use glyphs and ikoters fairly freely. There was one opponent who was a renegade Sandman. We found out about him in advance, by being thorough, and killed him at range.

Overall, I think the groups I run and play in are willing to trust other PCs with Mind Control, and will take surrenders from enemies who have it, although they'll be treated carefully.

Last edited by johndallman; 05-30-2021 at 05:14 AM.
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Old 05-30-2021, 05:32 AM   #38
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
The WWII campaign has one PC who can do mind control, but he is sensible enough not to try it on the other PCs, even when he's cross with us.

...

Overall, I think the groups I run and play in are willing to trust other PCs with Mind Control, and will take surrenders from enemies who have it, although they'll be treated carefully.
"Trust" is, though, it should be noted, relative. My character in that game has dropped a significant number of points into Will, Mind Shield, and (enhanced) Magic Resistance in recent years.
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Old 05-30-2021, 05:34 AM   #39
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

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"Trust" is, though, it should be noted, relative. My character in that game has dropped a significant number of points into Will, Mind Shield, and (enhanced) Magic Resistance in recent years.
True: I took Resistant (Mind Control, +8).
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Old 05-30-2021, 09:50 AM   #40
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

does anyone know if there's been an enhancement produced for mind control where if you fail the contest it doesn't notify the target they're under attack, or at least requires some additional roll for them to perceive it to make it a bit harder? kinda wondering if "no signature" might cover it but not sure
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