High-Tech Dungeon Fantasizing

[Landwalker]

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

Firstly, I really like the idea, and highly recommend you check out the The Demolisher, and The Musketeer templates from Pyramid #3/36.

I'm a big fan of both of those templates, and re-reading them just now was handy for giving me some guidance on what a "plus-sized adventurer" who wanted to use firearms might do (thanks to the "pistolbuss" rule on pg. 20).

They're also useful, even if not being explicitly used, for aspiring players in such a game, because they reinforce the notion that melee isn't something to be disregarded. Granted, neither the Demolisher nor the Musketeer are rolling into your local dungeon with a Colt M. 1855 revolver-shotgun or a pair of Colt Governments or anything like that, so there's a lot of "downtime" between their ranged shots, but it's still worthwhile for prospective delvers to note that both templates have melee weapon skills prioritized in their templates (as a primary skill choice for the Demolisher, and as several secondary skill choices for the Musketeer, both at roughly the same skill level of 15-ish).

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

The only thing that occurs to me that hasn't already been stated, is that you may want to find a way of dialing back the damage of muscle-powered ranged weapons, or increase the damage of guns. As it stands they're not really comparable, a Scout will typically be able to inflict more damage with his bow than a rifle, more accurately, and with a faster recharge. That's not necessarily historically inaccurate, but for Dungeon Fantasy historical accuracy isn't particularly important.

That's a good and valid catch, and thankfully it's something I've already considered (at least, implicitly, though I haven't gone into the nuts and bolts here). It dovetails considerably with my still-to-be-rehashed muscle-powered damage tweak.


Edit: As an aside, I already have a potential player lobbying to play a minotaur demolitions expert with a Lewis Mk. 1. =D

[Wavefunction]

Originally Posted by Landwalker

That's a good and valid catch, and thankfully it's something I've already considered (at least, implicitly, though I haven't gone into the nuts and bolts here). It dovetails considerably with my still-to-be-rehashed muscle-powered damage tweak.

I look forward to hearing about it. I'm almost done gathering together the relevant information I need to start the thread.

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Edit: As an aside, I already have a potential player lobbying to play a minotaur demolitions expert with a Lewis Mk. 1. =D

I can relate to this guy. My approach would also be, get the biggest, scariest character I can, and equip him with the biggest, scariest armaments, then launch him at the suddenly-less-scary-seeming enemies.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Firearms are loud.

Action movies typically ignore these effects (as well as many of the others), so you could easily do so for DF as well. That said, some magic/cinematic ear protection would work nicely, as would magically silencing the weapons.

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Dungeons aren't known for being well-lit.

In The Noble Dead Saga, one of the main characters has a staff that can produce sunlight, but she has to be looking at the crystal that does so in order to activate the spell. To avoid going blind, she has some nifty, clear glasses that darken when exposed to bright light.

Something similar could work here. You'd probably have to make it explicitly magical to work quickly enough, but something that instantly darkens to filter out bright light could work to retain night vision and avoid dazzle.

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Dungeons are stereotypically close-quarters environments.

Bayonets are half the fun of long rifles. Give your character a decent Spear or Staff skill in addition to Guns - or adapt Bow Fencer to let you use your rifle as a spear using Guns. I'd suggest a penalty of some sort for the latter - otherwise equal point investment can lead to a musketeer who is better with a bayonet than a spearman is with his spear!

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Certain types of monsters (corporeal undead, golems, anything that's homogeneous) have quite a lot of resistance to piercing damage!

If explosive bullets are available (High Tech notes LE being possible at TL4 for cannon; miniaturization to rifle calibers doesn't seem outlandish for DF), they'll handle those creatures pretty effectively. Many of them might have more exotic weaknesses that you can design a bullet to make use of - some sort of antimagic poison round might be able to shut those things down outright.

Failing that, they might simply have to engage such creatures in melee. A tip slash with the bayonet can be fairly effective (doing cut), and a solid enough rifle can smash into them with a buttstroke. If all else fails, carry a hatchet.

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Explosions!

Bring a PC - possibly a Sage - with some knowledge of architecture, siege engineering, or similar. He'll be able to figure out where to toss the explosives to either avoid collapses or cause controlled ones - when you've got an orc army chasing you through the mines, collapsing the only tunnel that can connect them to your position will cut them off and allow for an escape.

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Shotguns. Are they useful?

Extremely - as you noted above, dungeons tend to have a lot of close confines, where the shotgun excels. Shotguns firing slugs are also a bit better for more exotic loads, like the explosive and poison options from above.

Originally Posted by Landwalker

What are the adversaries doing amidst all this technology? Are goblins and orcs regularly packing heat? How would this impact encounters with other foes—whether dragons, gladiator apes, trolls, ghosts, etc.?

That's a tough one, and entirely up to the GM. If firearms are common, you can probably expect goblinoids to have some crude or scavenged ones, as well as use explosives for traps and the like. Immortals and the like might be slow on taking up such technology, and slaves like gladiator apes probably won't be given it either.

Originally Posted by Landwalker

Are you armoring up?

Of course. In addition to melee threats, heavy armor will be able to defeat - or at least lessen the penetration of - many firearms. There's also the main reason a lot of modern militaries wear armor - it blocks shrapnel, which is the real killer from explosions.

Also, something to keep in mind - giant spider silk is nature's Kevlar.

Originally Posted by Landwalker

What other possible issues am I missing or not considering?

Don't forget about the interaction of firearms and magic. In addition to what already exists, there might be other ways of using them together. Essential Gunpowder might be a thing (higher power and/or lower Malf). Mages may learn quick, low-cost spells for igniting powder at a distance, or even for redirecting the power of an explosion (the Powder Mage Trilogy has some rather interesting examples of this - powder mages tend to blow up enemies' powder horns, one of the main characters can use powder to make bullets bounce around all over the place, and another one uses it to turn his bullets into guided munitions). Heck, magic might be able to manage an optimized burn that basically turns your weapon into an ETC (from UT) firearm.

[whswhs]

Setting aside its combat uses, black powder found applications in mining and tunneling very soon after it was invented. Dungeon crawling is going to take on a whole new style when you can bring down walls and blast tunnels.

[Ulzgoroth]

Oh, with Dungeon Fantasy instant-acting poisons, it's probably worth making bullets to deliver them. Or at least shotgun slugs.