Is Regeneration a Disadvantage?

[AlexanderHowl]

The simplest (and likely best) solution is that foreign matter is expelled from the body by Regeneration. Now, if you want Regeneration to cause permanent issues, just give it a modified Corrupting (-20%) limitation (with each interval of healing being considered one use). The 'corruption' would actually just be the symptoms of things healing wrong.

For example, a character possesses Regeneration (Regular; Corrupting, -20%) [20]. Each HP healed gives the character 5 points of Corruption. When the character reaches 125 points of Corruption, they exchange it for -5 CP in permanent physical disadvantages. Each day that the character goes without needing to use Regeneration removes one point of Corruption, as they recover from any errors in healing.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The simplest (and likely best) solution is that foreign matter is expelled from the body by Regeneration

What if the foreign matter is Ant Man or something though? Doesn't seem right to take it for granted, which is why I like the InternalTK approach. It's just a perk, so why not charge it?

No reason to limit it to regen/rapid healers either, a Slow Healing or Unhealing creature might also have the ability to remove foreign objects from their bodies.

TK-expulsion is probably only going to be impeded by per-second regeneration. If you're at 10-second intervals or higher that's probably enough time for InternalTK to wrestle the bullet out before wound closes.

Ant Man is another matter: he could probably hang on more than 10 seconds and then the wound closes and it becomes impossible to get him out without creating a new wound.

The "grappling" approach is definitely seeming more realistic/gritty than the Affliction:Warp approach, glad I abandoned that.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Plane

What if the foreign matter is Ant Man or something though?.

Why would Antman be imbedded in someone's wound? And if he was, I find the idea of him being enveloped by flesh and unable to ever get out a bit excessively gross.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Why would Antman be imbedded in someone's wound? And if he was, I find the idea of him being enveloped by flesh and unable to ever get out a bit excessively gross.

He could always grow to human size again. A little body horror never hurt anyone.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Anders

A little body horror never hurt anyone.

There's a time and place.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Anders

He could always grow to human size again. A little body horror never hurt anyone.

No, he couldn't. Ant-Man can't grow through any material stronger than his own fleeh in the fictional sources and in a game he couldn't get an attack like that without first paying for it.

[Otaku]

After Pane and Daigoro's back and forth, I may be able to prove somewhat useful, thanks to having been an extreme X-Men fanboy for the 90s, carrying into the early 00s. I'll resist going into excess detail, if only so I can be lazy and not have to double check everything I'm about to say. ;)

The Fox films are not the Marvel Comics, and the Marvel Comics are not the films. Even in the comics, there dozens (hundreds?) of officially published variations of Wolverine. There are also adaptations, some quite well known to different demographics, from multiple forms of media that are not the films or comics. They're also adapting from the original source material, and sometime even from other adaptations e.g. video games based on the films. There are executive mandates and changes in creative teams that change things, but even if we stick to the mainstream, Earth-616 comic book version of Wolverine, with the same creative team, and no interfering executive mandates... you'll find the efficacy of his powers fluctuate according to the needs of the story.

The Earth-616 (main comic book) Wolverine seems to have had Regeneration (Normal) or Regeneration (Fast) as the story needed prior to about 1993. During the Fatal Attractions crossover, Magneto ripped the adamantium from Wolverine's skeleton, leading to him having Regeneration (Slow)... and even that was after some (mostly) off panel recovery time. They hinted his healing factor was "burnt out" from saving his life, then that adamantium may have been stimulating his healing factor, then changed their minds (or creative staff) and said it was the opposite: the healing factor was functionally weaker because it was dealing with the damage the adamntium was constantly doing to his system. Many stupid things happened. Eventually, Wolverine gets his metal-bones back, keeps the accelerated healing factor, but they do mention his healing factor is why he doesn't die from having had adamantium bonded to his bones.

Other characters have survived the process. Most notable is probably Sabertooth, who may or may not have it anymore, and didn't first receive it until... the early 2000s, I think. I believe the process was even originally designed to work on normal humans, it is just their survival rate was terrible and (applying later in-setting factors), they would probably require constant medical maintenance to deal with the side effects Wolverine's healing factor "naturally" handles.

Whew! I know that is a long tangent, but I wanted to explain why how foreign matter is handled by Wolverine's Regeneration is so inconsistent.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No, he couldn't. Ant-Man can't grow through any material stronger than his own fleeh in the fictional sources and in a game he couldn't get an attack like that without first paying for it.

Why do you want to crush my dreams of Chest-Buster Man?

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Rhyzvhanic

But are we talking about a modified regeneration?

We are talking about both Modified and Unmodified Regeneration, and I believe we are discussing exactly what unmodified Regeneration actually encompasses.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Why would Antman be imbedded in someone's wound?

Oh there's always convoluted plot reasons. Maybe he got shot out of a gun at the wound, maybe I threw him into it, maybe he's guiding Miss Frizzle on another field trip into the circulatory system.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

And if he was, I find the idea of him being enveloped by flesh and unable to ever get out a bit excessively gross.

In his case, per P76 he could probably just shrink to SM-44 and exit through the pores of the skin.

If you can't shrink that small then it would make sense to need to find (or make) an open wound to exit at SM-19.

He might not need to open the old scab. At SM-19 you can waterslide through the bloodstream until you reach an appropriate place to exit. Like maybe if one body part had less DR than others.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No, he couldn't. Ant-Man can't grow through any material stronger than his own fleeh in the fictional sources and in a game he couldn't get an attack like that without first paying for it.

B58 rules for Growth are if max thrust for your current strength is greater than DR of your container then in DR seconds you burst it, but those could probably do for some reanalysis.

Maybe something akin to the Collision rules, like it counts as a zero-velocity collision to expand beyond a container.

I had some discussion with Eric the Red about this back when I could keep my head around that test combat (sorry for abandoning btw ETR, things have got messy IRL) about how defensive slams end up doing less damage than accidental collisions, and proposed the idea that non-attack collisions should take the defensive penalty (-2 damage) plus maybe an extra penalty on top of that.

Originally Posted by Otaku

Magneto ripped the adamantium from Wolverine's skeleton, leading to him having Regeneration (Slow)... and even that was after some (mostly) off panel recovery time. They hinted his healing factor was "burnt out" from saving his life, then that adamantium may have been stimulating his healing factor,

Getting your healing factor burned out might be a case of paying character points to survive something (maybe CP-fueled Unkillable?) and the GM lets you take those CP out of your existing advantage if you have no unspent CP to pay with?

Adamantium stimulation might be something like training: wolverine is essentially always wearing a 100lb weighted vest (it's just inside his bones) which probably counts as on the job training for learning to get extra FP and ST.

Originally Posted by Otaku

then changed their minds (or creative staff) and said it was the opposite: the healing factor was functionally weaker because it was dealing with the damage the adamntium was constantly doing to his system.

I think an easier take on "he heals faster because the adamantium was hurting him" might just be "he heals faster because the adamantium was TIRING him".

If wolverine had to use FP for Extra Effort a lot more often because of his built-in encumbrance, then if his Regeneration was fueled by FP (which sounds like a realistic take on regeneration) he would have less FP available to fuel it when he's using EE to lug himself around.

My approach falls apart when you consider the many times where he's just lying immobile while healing though because even if you were wearing 200lbs of platemail you don't spend extra FP to lie prone in that platemail, just to walk around in it.

Originally Posted by Otaku

Eventually, Wolverine gets his metal-bones back, keeps the accelerated healing factor, but they do mention his healing factor is why he doesn't die from having had adamantium bonded to his bones.

I think traditionally it was always meant to be the bonding process ("hey we're just going to poke 99 tubes in through holes in your body, don't bleed to death!") which was so deadly and what the HF was for.

Maybe the best way to find out is actually look at the failed projects (1-9) where people died and understand HOW they died?

Originally Posted by Otaku

We are talking about both Modified and Unmodified Regeneration, and I believe we are discussing exactly what unmodified Regeneration actually encompasses.

I just think it should do what it says it does: restore HP.

Mechanically that shouldn't be any different than if that HP were restored by Healing advantage or one of the various healing spells.

None of which say anything about expelling foreign materials, so that really ought to be separate.

Healing in particular has a separate approach for curing illnesses, which might be seen as expelling (if not deactivating) foreign matter such as bacteria or viruses, yes?

I don't even know if Healing (or Regeneration) is able to get rid of poison: just restore HP lost to poison, but the poison presumably keeps on going. If Healing/Regen was "expel foreign things" then you could just assume poison gets teleported out.