Programming Robots w/Punch Cards?

[sir_pudding]

There seems to be a lot of confusion between early electronic computers and mechanical ones in this thread. Electronic computers used punch cards for I/0 and storage for decades.

[Sydney]

I hadn't specified it (I don't think), but I picture them to be early electronics using miniaturized tubes and what not. They're about the size of a person and are generally bipedal, however they don't move very quickly and aren't really that great for "offroad" use. They're also mostly used for factory linework in the setting. Though, there are some robots that are meant to identify people as they enter an area (using a punch card ID), can attempt some small talk utilizing keywords that might be programmed into them, but they have no form of AI at all.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

There seems to be a lot of confusion between early electronic computers and mechanical ones in this thread. Electronic computers used punch cards for I/0 and storage for decades.

It's possible to build complex mechanical computers. My dad had (has?) a couple mechanical 4bit processor 64bit memory + 4 bit register (Yes, BITS) computer kits; the assembled plastic and wire devices are from 1960 or so, and were part of his college education. They weigh a under a pound, are hand operated (30-45 Hz) by hand cranking.

While manufactured at about 6L, it could easily be compressed down to about 0.5 and still be hand actuated and set.

Likewise, modern digital computers are essentially the same general procedure as Babbage's unfinished Analytical Engine. The line is a blurry one, because, given the technology, the mechanical computer is actually doing more per action, because it's using base 10, not base 2, but it does so much lower rates of action... still, mechanical computers were still in use right up to the early 1980's... when the BB's finally replaced the gunnery computers with PC's... gaining immensely in speed, but losing some accuracy...

Anything doable with electric computing can be done (albeit slower) by mechanical computing. Whether that's timely or not...

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Anything doable with electric computing can be done (albeit slower) by mechanical computing. Whether that's timely or not...

The main issue is really stimuli feedback, if you need to program things like visual responses and such it just isn't going to happen, but if the genre calls for the installation of lenses to give the robot vision, like a golem, then you don't have to worry about programming senses.

That form is function is in genre for much of steampunk.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

It's possible to build complex mechanical computers.

I'm aware of this. My point is that the use of cards does not imply mechanical computers as most of the posts in this thread seem to assume. Electronic computers would seem to be the OP's intent, which he confirms above.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I'm aware of this. My point is that the use of cards does not imply mechanical computers as most of the posts in this thread seem to assume. Electronic computers would seem to be the OP's intent, which he confirms above.

having electronic computers in the 1930's isn't going to be much advantage; the real things were huge and slow, and without the transistor, mostly electromechanical, not truly electric. (The first transistor patent is 1938; it didn't make much inroads until the 1950's!)

Even vacuum tube computing is in its infancy in the 30's; the first successful tube computers of note are in the 1940's, with WWII's Collossus.

Which means, that, barring superscience, electronic digital computing is unlikely and anachronistic, tho some analogue electric "computation" is possible, in the form of triode/tetrode/pentode networks. Which, if calibrated correctly, can function as a non-learning neural net...

As for visual input; photodiodes are developed in 1928; a photodiode and a spring-resisted linear actuator can be used to created mechanical data for reading by a mechanical computer based upon a compound eye.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

Which means, that, barring superscience, electronic digital computing is unlikely and anachronistic,

And humanoid robots aren't?

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

And humanoid robots aren't?

Building a humaniform machine is one thing. Building one that's human-sized, mobile, and carries its own power supply is quite another. And those are just the most basic considerations...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by RevBob

Building a humaniform machine is one thing. Building one that's human-sized, mobile, and carries its own power supply is quite another. And those are just the most basic considerations...

Sure. I'm not certain I'm following. Are you saying that these things are less superscience with mechanical computers than electronic ones?

[RevBob]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Sure. I'm not certain I'm following. Are you saying that these things are less superscience with mechanical computers than electronic ones?

I'm just observing that the more functionality one wishes to put into the machine, and the smaller the machine should be, the more highly-refined the required technology becomes.

I mean, if you want something human-shaped that's on the scale of a Saturn V and is hardwired into an external power source, that can be done on a much lower tech scale than if you want it six feet tall, ambulatory, and with an on-board power supply.

Just saying that it should be human-shaped says nothing about that issue. The Colossus of Rhodes was human-shaped...