How far could a metal-less society progress?

[Flyndaran]

I came up with an alternate world in which most metals corrode almost instantly when exposed to air stranding the denizens to a stone age TL0+X in gurps terms.

I'm wondering what interesting technology they could realistically come up with assuming my one impossible scenario.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I came up with an alternate world in which most metals corrode almost instantly when exposed to air stranding the denizens to a stone age TL0+X in gurps terms.

I'm wondering what interesting technology they could realistically come up with assuming my one impossible scenario.

I assume you are actually interested in what can you build without metals and not the really neat pyrotechnics and explosives this might enable, or the way terrestrial life dies on exposure to this air.

Honestly, I don't think it's impossible for any TL to exist without metals. Metals have lots of nice engineering properties, but designing around the properties of what you've got is what engineering is about. Without metals (and barring any really terrific replacements from the biosphere, see that completely unlike terrestrial biochemistry issue) many devices will need to be operated at lower stresses, so performance will often be inferior, particularly on a per weight basis (or for your case, built to operate in an artificial atmosphere or vacuum - metals are so much better conductors that would be worth it for electrical equipment) but something can usually be built to do the same job.

The real issue is that metals are *cheap* - without an equivalent cheap, strong, relatively easily formed material, I don't know that a society can ever *afford* high technology. Getting to one pretty much requires passing through a stage of widely distributed hand made durable hand tools. And that's durable in the sense of lasting so long the labor saved using them is more valuable than their replacements. Non-metal tools are mostly going to both wear out faster *and* cost more relative to labor. Most of the difference between the late neolithic and the classical or medieval period is less about new technologies than it is about society having piled up enough surpluses to undertake more big projects.

[DAT]

When you say "most metals corrode", which don't? Gold, silver, iridium ...?

Iridium tools are possible, but way expensive.

Another way to go is ceramics.
-Dan

[Ts_]

Assuming you ignore all metals entirely ... Here's my uneducated guess.

In general, chemistry (to get to plastic soon) and physics/engineering might solve a lot of the structural problems that not having metal produces. I would probably miss the invention of glass, too, but optics might be developed nonetheless (through crystals, shiny ceramic mirrors, transparent plastic stuff etc).

Not having magnets could hurt navigation. And even if you manage to get electricity through conducting liquids in hoses (instead of cables), electromagnetic things would be not available, including basic things as speakers etc. So you would have to find different ways to convert electric energy into movement, but I guess heat or sparking tiny explosions could do the trick to invent something like a telegraph.

Printing presses and phonographs/gramophones probably don't need metal. Photography should also be possible somehow.

Basic computers can be done mechanically, so probably with plastic, ceramics or whatnot as well. I guess, at our TL someone can build mechanical no-metal computers that can compete with those from WW2. (Most likely involving Lego bricks ...)

Transportation ... Sail boats should be no problem. Horse shoes, one can do without, if the road isn't paved with stones but with softer materials (tar?), as far as I understand their purposes. Rubber replaces metal wheels. Anything that requires an engine however ... At least, stationary steam engines could probably be built, so maybe you can set up transportation lines using tons of stretched rubber bands ... Or often refilled hot-air balloons.

That's all assuming the very best thing that could happen ... If the problem is just the availability of the items, just declare it an economic utopia.

Regards
Ts

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I came up with an alternate world in which most metals corrode almost instantly when exposed to air stranding the denizens to a stone age TL0+X in gurps terms.

I'm wondering what interesting technology they could realistically come up with assuming my one impossible scenario.

They could invent gunpowder. Maybe even put it into wooden rockets. Don't need metal for wheels and wagons, although to be sure it makes wood working easier. A little bit of metal being left might still allow lens griding.

[Sarge]

Without metal you simply cannot progress past TL 2, or more likely TL 1+1.

Stone tools are just too limited in their usefulness. Without metal you won't have nails, hinges or metal bindings. You can't grind glass or make any useful machines. No castles. In fact, pretty much no stone construction at all.

Plastic can substitute for metal in many cases, but without metal you can't mine for oil, which prevents the invention of plastic.

You can't have firearms, decent armor, vehicles beyond wagons, and most wagons used bits of metal for increased durability of certain moving parts.

The lack of stone working and horseshoes prevents building decent roads. This means no real infrastructure and prevents rapid movement of armies or caravans. This in turn limits the maximum size of your country or empire.

Yeah. No metal is huge deal.

[Ts_]

I don't think "no castles" has much effect on TL, neither does the military, since everyone has to fight without metal. Stones houses aren't necessary in all parts of the worlds, either.

Sure, a society could be stuck at early TLs. But you can advance almost all sciences quite a lot without metal, by doing controlled experiments. What would the understanding of agriculture and medicine do to the efficiency of a society, even if they use wooden plows?

Regarding chemistry/plastics: Oil can be found without drilling (which isn't necessarily impossible, just find harder rocks elsewhere to drill into softer rocks), just not "mass-produced" unless your world happens to have a lot of features that ours doesn't. So chemistry can advance to reasonable points as well. There is no perfect substitute for Petroleum, but similar things can be synthesized from gases, organic material, etc.

I see that there are a lot of small tools missing ... But none of them seem unreplaceable. Nails? Tie things together or craft them to fit mechanically. Door hinges? Use a curtain. Load-bearing pieces in a wagon: Use the best thing you find and replace it more often.

In the end, if you can support a large civilization (which strictly speaking only needs enough food), you can invent things. Food problems are solved by designing the world as very arable and not wasting so much time and energy on the military.

If you want to be more radical about it: Even in a "normal" situation can a country support a single scientist. Now make the world much larger than earth and suddenly you have many scientists, no matter how small the productivity of a single country is. As long as they can write a single letter to a colleague in their lifetime, you will make progress.

If you ask, how a metal-less society in a cold barren world can progress without any resources, well then, I guess, metal doesn't really factor into that question ...

Regards
Ts

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by DAT

When you say "most metals corrode", which don't? Gold, silver, iridium ...?

pure gold doesn't corrode, and barely reacts. It alloys quite readily, tho', and gold alloys do corrode.


@sarge:

The Inca and the Olmecs stoneworks were done using stone tools. One can build monumental architecture with just stone, rope and wood; you just need to work using tools of harder stone than what you are working.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by DAT

When you say "most metals corrode", which don't? Gold, silver, iridium ...?

pure gold doesn't corrode, and barely reacts. It alloys quite readily, tho', and gold alloys do corrode.


@sarge:

The Inca and the Olmecs stoneworks were done using stone tools. One can build monumental architecture with just stone, rope and wood; you just need to work using tools of harder stone than what you are working.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Just to point out, the easy way to make a world without metal is having it form around a Population II star, or very young Population III star.

These types of planets would be much larger than ours because instead of nickel/iron cores they'd have less dense aluminum/silicon cores, with few elements higher than calcium.

And while it's possible to make things out of aluminum, extraction of aluminum is a pretty high tech development.

Originally Posted by Sarge

Stone tools are just too limited in their usefulness. Without metal you won't have nails, hinges or metal bindings. You can't grind glass or make any useful machines. No castles. In fact, pretty much no stone construction at all.

All those can be done without metal, and were done without metal historically.