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Old 01-27-2010, 03:38 PM   #31
Ubiquitous
 
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

Sorry Doug, I made that argument LAST PAGE, I just got massively Ninja'd by the time I got around to posting it. But, eh, I still think you could call it hitting more on-target for the extra damage.

Also, the reason I petition WM (Guns) is because Gunslinger seems a bit too easy. Adding Acc...unless you're speed-aiming it doesn't seem like a 'realistic' advantage. I know it's not but WM (Sword) sounds more realistic in principle than Gunslinger, y'know?

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
I can not stress this enough. Imbuements add a lot of offensive capability to the gunfighter, and more importantly, a lot of utility (Stunning with Crippling/Stupefying blow, immobilizing with Binding Shot,...). They even allowed some of the Gun Fu stuns prior to Gun Fu (Bank shot/arcing shot/...). A gunslinger with Imbuements can hold his own to low level supers of the same point value.
Imbuements are what now? This sounds good.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:44 PM   #32
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

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Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
Also, the reason I petition WM (Guns) is because Gunslinger seems a bit too easy. Adding Acc...unless you're speed-aiming it doesn't seem like a 'realistic' advantage. I know it's not but WM (Sword) sounds more realistic in principle than Gunslinger, y'know?
It's not. Weapon Master is just as cinematic. Skill doesn't believably increase the KE of the weapon.
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Imbuements are what now? This sounds good.
A system for enhancing weapons that you wield, as a skill based ability of the wielder, see PU1.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
It's not. Weapon Master is just as cinematic. Skill doesn't believably increase the KE of the weapon.
KE? Killing Efficiency? I dun get it. And I agree with you, my stance for WM (Guns) is basically 'if you're gonna slap on arbitrary damage for WM, why not guns?' but since that always sounds bad I have to edit the wording a bit. And sometimes I'm genuinely interested in making a new Advantage, but eh.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
A system for enhancing weapons that you wield, as a skill based ability of the wielder, see PU1.
I drooled a bit reading that tagline. Are imbuements things you have that you apply to every weapon you use, or weapon specific?
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:59 PM   #34
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

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Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
KE? Killing Efficiency? I dun get it.
Kinetic Energy aka "what base GURPS damage actually measures". This is entirely dependent on the objects mass and velocity. Mass isn't variable here, your sword has the same mass no matter what your skill. GURPS assumes that skill doesn't meaningfully affect velocity either, which is merely a result of (Striking) ST.
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And I agree with you, my stance for WM (Guns) is basically 'if you're gonna slap on arbitrary damage for WM, why not guns?'
Presumably because the magic that lets Weapon Master work doesn't make much sense, in most settings, for firearms. I think this is because firearms lack the same mythology that makes MW seem plausible.
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I drooled a bit reading that tagline. Are imbuements things you have that you apply to every weapon you use, or weapon specific?
The advantage to use them can apply to every attack, but the skills themselves must be specialized. You should really just read the pdf. All is explained therein.
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:59 PM   #35
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

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Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
And sometimes I'm genuinely interested in making a new Advantage, but eh.
You could construct a damage bonus from Innate Attack with Follow-Up :J
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:44 PM   #36
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

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Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
Don't guns deal enough damage already?
Spycraft 2.0 (possibly also the original edition) has some kind of ability, probably a Feat, that lets character deal large-shortarm damage with small shortarms, i.e. so that a small-caliber pistol or revolver function as a large-caliber weapon.

One could have something similar in other RPGs, a cinematic Advantage that only affects small-caliber shortarms (and medium-caliber ones), but particularly in GURPS it might get problematic with regards to armour penetration. Although Spycraft has some ways to reduce damage by a little bit (weak dR), the primary affect of armour still is to make the wearer harder to hit (AC), so there isnt the same potential problem of letting small guns do the same amount of damage as large guns.
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Old 01-28-2010, 03:30 AM   #37
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Even if your knocked down shooting back can still happen, its not a huge penalty
I'm not sure why you're mentioning this, but it's quite true; there is, in fact, NO penalty for shooting while prone with guns.
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Old 01-28-2010, 07:14 AM   #38
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

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Originally Posted by Captain-Captain View Post
And if you absolutely have to do better than upgrade your ammo:

Imbuments.
This is what I'm thinking about doing with my gunslinger character. For character reasons he will not be giving up his fine pistols which only do 2d+2, so this is the only option as we start running into guys with 10 and 15 DR and even 5+ on their eyes.

On a side note, it's much easier and cheaper to modify a gun to be fine and very fine, giving reliability and acc increases and it's just as easy and cheap to modify the ammunition to do the same. I think the mechanics of the weapon master are just not needed considering that.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:40 PM   #39
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Skill doesn't believably increase the KE of the weapon.
I disagree.

I've only significantly studied unarmed martial arts, but a high percentage of the training I've received has focused on using the whole body in unison in order to hit with more effective mass (your whole body instead of just your arm) and to use more muscle groups (using your glutes to accelerate your fist).

There's no reason why weapon training could not teach the same principles*, and no reason weapon skill could not increase damage in the same way that GURPS Karate and Boxing do.

*But I think in general they don't focus on it as much IRL, most weapons being plenty lethal at the forces you can generate normally.
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Old 01-28-2010, 02:46 PM   #40
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Default Re: Weapon Master for Guns

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Originally Posted by aesir23 View Post
I disagree.

I've only significantly studied unarmed martial arts, but a high percentage of the training I've received has focused on using the whole body in unison in order to hit with more effective mass (your whole body instead of just your arm) and to use more muscle groups (using your glutes to accelerate your fist).

There's no reason why weapon training could not teach the same principles*, and no reason weapon skill could not increase damage in the same way that GURPS Karate and Boxing do.

*But I think in general they don't focus on it as much IRL, most weapons being plenty lethal at the forces you can generate normally.
I don't disagree with you in principle, but GURPS doesn't handle it that way, except for unarmed skills. If it did then it wouldn't be the property of esoteric advantages but rather a normal consequence of high skill. Are you saying that Weapon Master isn't cinematic?
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