multiple damage, weapon master and other weirdness

[Psychotime]

Originally Posted by Tyneras

But we play with the RPG we have, not the RPG we want.

I'm just a rookie, but I think you're going about this whole tabletopping thing the wrong way if you're saying stuff like that.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by lexington

Under this system there would be rarely ever be reason to ever taken anything but Brawling when it comes to striking skills.

The breakdown I've seen most often, but not the only one, would break things into

Punch: using manipulators to strike
Kick: using limbs that support the body and provide propulsion to strike

Grapple: using weight and leverage to damage, immobilize or throw an opponent

Locks: using the limits of your opponent's physiology to damage, immobilize or throw an opponent.

Brawling, Boxing, Karate would go away.

I do like the idea of divorcing the damage bonus from the skills.

I don't. Or more specifically, I like the idea that damage increases with skill, though I might have done it differently in 2004 than it was done.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

There is none, really, other than the certainty of some that it wasn't the intent for unarmed attacks to be considered 'weapons' in the sense covered by Weapon Master, and that TbAM was intended to be the one advantage to give that stuff to unarmed combat. Since that 'some' seems to include the author of Martial Arts, it gives me some pause to disagree, but not too much.

What are you referring to in that last sentence?

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

What are you referring to in that last sentence?

Merely that I've seen posts from a few years back from Toadkiller_Dog stating that Weapon Master was not meant for unarmed attacks, although none by Peter discussing the specific argument that as items that are included in the Weapon Tables, fists and kicks really ought to be covered in the 45 point level.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Merely that I've seen posts from a few years back from Toadkiller_Dog stating that Weapon Master was not meant for unarmed attacks, although none by Peter discussing the specific argument that as items that are included in the Weapon Tables, fists and kicks really ought to be covered in the 45 point level.

Hmm... Seems like it would be worth bringing it up with him or Kromm. Maybe you'd get an explanation you could live with.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Hmm... Seems like it would be worth bringing it up with him or Kromm. Maybe you'd get an explanation you could live with.

I reviewed all TD's posts on the topic, and it doesn't really look like it - think I'm just going to stick with saying that the words mean what they say ;-)

[simply Nathan]

It's also nice, if you can, to buy a level or two of Long Arms if you've got a Weapon Master specialization that includes swung weapons. Sure, you'll look awkward as heck(what with the limbs as long as your body and all), but it's worth even more extra damage - and increases your Reach.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Hmm... Seems like it would be worth bringing it up with him or Kromm. Maybe you'd get an explanation you could live with.

Not Really, because natural weapons is covered by Brawling and falls under "Unarmed" (they Can be uesd with Karate but IIRC this requires a perk when we discussed Cat-fu)

Pucnch and Claw Damages done magically because Weapons just because they listed on the look up table for easy access.

Tables are not rule definitions they are rule summaries.

You Waxia Martial Artists Probably have Both Trained by the Master to got with their Karate and give them access to the exotic skills, pluse Weapon Master (Style's Weapons)

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

Not Really, because natural weapons is covered by Brawling and falls under "Unarmed"

Pucnch and Claw Damages done magically because Weapons just because they listed on the look up table for easy access.

Tables are not rule definitions they are rule summaries.

It's not just the tables, it's everything else as well. They're listed as 'natural weapons' several other places in Characters, and Weapon Master itself gives the 45 point level as all muscle-powered weapons. Unless your punches and kicks are powered by something other than muscles....

Note also that I'm not suggesting that the Weapon Master damage bonus would stack with the damage bonuses from the unarmed skills, not in a million years. Although it might upgrade for Brawling. However, having the reduced penalties for Rapid Strike and multiple parries apply to your natural weapons as well as those you pick up for one price (full WM) strikes me as nicer than having to do a work around with limiting TBaM or something, and as long as the bonuses don't stack, unarmed with natural weapons will still be an inferior option, just as all the line authors who chime in on the subject always say, just not handicapped in that particular respect.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

It's not just the tables, it's everything else as well. They're listed as 'natural weapons' several other places in Characters, and Weapon Master itself gives the 45 point level as all muscle-powered weapons. Unless your punches and kicks are powered by something other than muscles....

exacpt the Rules NEVER treat 'natural weapons' and 'weapons' to be synonymous. natrual weapos is NOT a subgroup of 'mussel powered weapon' but instead, instead special abilities on UNARMED damage.

One of the reason for the need to DF mosnters to take Strikers, not just Claws and teeth, else the fall afoul of the attacking armed opponents unarmed rules. if they were 'mussed powered weapons' it would not be an issue.