09-27-2013, 09:21 PM | #31 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
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Or maybe you fail your Will roll and you suffer FP instead of HP, or suffer a Pain affliction (headaches) instead of a Pain affliction (pulled muscle). I'm OK with any, so long as it's a good story. :-)
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09-27-2013, 09:57 PM | #32 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles County
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
Well you use DX or skill to do "complex actions" and IQ to "use your TK properly" but Will really feels like it maps to HT better. Really rolling vs HT is basically rolling vs the "power source" of your ST so whatever the "source" of your TK is you should somehow roll against that.
This is all new territory though; traditionally ST and TK just...work. No need for rolls against other stats. Even if, in retrospect, rolling against ST (which is, as Kromm says, an extrinsic stat) is a bit silly. |
09-28-2013, 09:26 AM | #33 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
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So in a situation like this: Psionetto (TK 100, Will 15, Judo 15) is lifting Iron Spidey (mass 150lbs, ST100, DX and Judo 15) This is 150/2000 = 0.075, then add 3, looking up the modifier, for a +6 bonus to the HT (i.e. Will) roll. So Psionetto rolls 15+6 = 21 against Spidey's 100. It is very unclear what Iron Spidey does that so easily thwarts Psionetto's attempt to just pull upward assuming an established grapple and a failure to break free, even though their BLs are evenly matched, and the mass-to-BL is less than 4×BL (compare to e.g. Backbreaker in MA, where's it's a matter of breaking free). ---- Now, I've only read pages 24 and 8 for this example, so maybe I'm missing something. And yes, I realise that spending CP can ease the roll, but this gives a huge advantage to Spidey when he tries to break free after the CP expenditure. |
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09-28-2013, 09:42 AM | #34 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
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Also, a telekinetic grapple and a regular physical two handed grapple are indistinguishable unless the grappler with telekinesis has paid special points. There is nothing different about a telekinetic grapple, and a two-handed physical grapple unless those points have been spent. If spidey can resist a physical grapple with his strength, the same applies to a telekinetic one.
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09-28-2013, 09:55 AM | #35 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
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09-28-2013, 01:10 PM | #36 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
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Unlikely, but it becomes more common under more human conditions. Assuming 2 pickup attempts per minute of wrestling on average, a 90-minute training session, and a 50% of it spent actually wrestling (numbers very roughly WMG'd based on vague memory of university years). Assuming that beginners will have ST10ish and weight 150ish lbs, that gives us HT-11 rolls, failing which causes damage. But I've been picked up and have picked up people multiple times, despite having unremarkable ST and HT, and neither experienced nor saw such nasty outcomes. Quote:
Let's say I want to pick up a house cat - ¼×BL, which is a roll of HT+5. For a couch potato with HT9 and Unfit, that's a 13 against the cat's DX of 14. 28% chance of being able to successfully pick up a cat. A bit low, isn't it? |
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09-28-2013, 01:42 PM | #37 |
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
If the cat isn't resisting you shouldn't even need to roll.
Last edited by sir_pudding; 09-28-2013 at 02:54 PM. |
09-28-2013, 01:54 PM | #38 | |||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
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Again, pickups are for combat. You can pick up a friendly housecat with a ready. I did say in a pevious thread that there needs to be a threshold below which the HT roll is irrelevant. I think I suggested BL/2 or so.
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09-28-2013, 02:00 PM | #39 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
[QUOTE=MatthewVilter;1652014traditionally ST and TK just...work.[/QUOTE]Traditionally, magic just... works. Stabbing people just... happens. But in GURPS and most RPGs, there's some sort of skill or combat roll involved. Fiction rarely takes time out to discuss probabilities, much less make die rolls, but that doesn't mean the abilities "just work" in a game context.
GURPS TK has never "just worked". 3e Psionics had skills for everything. 4e has the roll versus IQ (avoiding the explicit skills, which promptly get re-introduced in Psi Powers). GURPS ST only "just works" for basic uses like encumbrance. Exertion calls for skills like Lifting or Will rolls for Extra Effort, not to mention combat skills like Wrestling or Karate. And ST-based damage doesn't "just work" every time; there's a damage roll. The Basic description of applied ST for "Lifting and Moving Things" (B353) says "To pick up an unwilling character, you must take a second to grapple him first (see Grappling, p. 370). He may attempt to break free during the time it takes you to pick him up!" -- the same procedure as described here for TK. And the description of the TK Advantage says ""No rolls are necessary for ordinary lifting and movement." Combat uses aren't "ordinary". I don't see an inconsistency. If anything, the argument ought to devolve into differences between TK, Levitation, and Apportation. |
09-28-2013, 03:32 PM | #40 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Dodging while being levitated by Telekinesis?
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ST 100, BL 2,000 lifter vs. ST 100, 150-lb target is very hard, because you roll your HT+6ish against ST50. But when a ST 5, BL 5 lifter vs. ST 5, 0.375lb target tries to lift the target, the roll becomes HT+6ish against the target's DX/Judo/etc., which is definitely easier than 50. I'm not sure there is a differentiation between a 'lethal' pickup and a 'nonlethal' pickup. E.g. both Combat- and Sport- based Takedown (Forced Change Positions) don't seem to have a side-effect of also dealing damage. (Again, might be missing something.) I'm not sure how pickups differ either. How would you modify a pickup done with Wrestling Sports / no skill in context of a Sports combat? Quote:
Agreed that it's needed, but can't contribute to the decision of the threshold. Sorry. |
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grappling, telekinesis |
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