+1 or better weapon to hit, why can magic weapons hit undead and demons that are imm

b-dog · 01-27-2013, 08:18 PM

I am curious about why a magic weapon is required to hit some supernatural monsters. Is magic imbued in the weapon that allows it to bypass supernatural immunity? Or is it more like silver affecting werewolves and if so why are undead and demons susceptible to magic weapons? And why does a weapon that has no enchantment do no damage and a weapon that has a +1 change do full damage? I am interested in the theories behind more that because it says so in a D&D book. Thanks.

David Johnston2 · 01-27-2013, 08:22 PM

Enchanting a weapon grants it a spiritual component. It exists on both planes.

Crakkerjakk · 01-27-2013, 08:32 PM

I like David's answer. Many supernatural creatures in fiction exist on several planes, and unless you can reach them on both (all they exist on) attacks are less effective.

b-dog · 01-27-2013, 09:00 PM

But why do GURPS magic items need Spirit Weapon to harm ghosts? Ghosts are thought to live on more than one plane and yet they are unaffected by magic weapons without Spirit Weapon on them. D&D magic weapons can affect insubstantial undead however.

Crakkerjakk · 01-27-2013, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-dog

But why do GURPS magic items need Spirit Weapon to harm ghosts? Ghosts are thought to live on more than one plane and yet they are unaffected by magic weapons without Spirit Weapon on them. D&D magic weapons can affect insubstantial undead however.

I'm guessing legacy from Man to Man. Lotta GURPS fantasy stuff is like that.

Langy · 01-27-2013, 09:05 PM

Because GURPS is not D&D.

Are there any statted GURPS monsters that can only be injured with 'magic weapons' in general? I didn't think there were.

EDIT: Just looked through DFM1, Fantasy, and DF2 and couldn't find any that this'd apply to. Closest one was the as-Sharak, which can only be killed by supernatural damage, but I'm not sure magic weapons that don't inflict extra damage count.

Anthony · 01-28-2013, 01:56 AM

Because it's a D&D tradition. In GURPS, you usually require the Ghost Weapon enchantment to affect incorporeal creatures, not just any magic weapon, and other creatures aren't immune to normal weapons.

If you want an excuse, other than a spiritual component, the other (often related) effect is that magic items might be able to resist spells that mundane objects cannot, though this is not generally the case in GURPS Magic.

Jerander · 01-28-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-dog

But why do GURPS magic items need Spirit Weapon to harm ghosts?...yet they are unaffected by magic weapons without Spirit Weapon on them. D&D magic weapons can affect insubstantial undead however.

Because that's the way Insubstantiality is defined in GURPS. Physical items/powers -- including weapons -- cannot interact with insubstantial entities, whether magical or not, unless specifically ruled that way (mind-affecting magic and psionics, etc.) or have Spirit Weapon or Affects Insubstantial.

If you want to port over the D&D rules instead of using the GURPS ones, that's your choice. Just assume all undead and demons have Insubstantial, Damage Reistance, and/or other defensive advantage(s) with the limitation, "Not to Magic Weapons, -10%". Limitation value may vary depending on frequency and/or type of magical weapons as dictated by your campaign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-dog

...Ghosts are thought to live on more than one plane...

I disagree. Ghosts are not physical entities at all. Ghosts only "live" on a spiritual plane that perfectly overlaps the physical one. Of course, now we're discussing world-specific fluff...Your world is different than mine.

David Johnston2 · 01-28-2013, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-dog

But why do GURPS magic items need Spirit Weapon to harm ghosts? Ghosts are thought to live on more than one plane and yet they are unaffected by magic weapons without Spirit Weapon on them. D&D magic weapons can affect insubstantial undead however.

Thought by whom?

starslayer · 01-28-2013, 05:49 PM

I'm not sure what your seeking here- it is not a standard GURPS methodology to have creatures damaged by magic weapons when they would otherwise not be (so it would have to be integrated into the advantages of the creature; DR 'not vs magic' or insubstantiality 'not vs magic' are both good options) so asking 'why does GURPS do it this way' is kind of pointless.

I kind of like the earthdawn approach to this sort of thing. Creatures have a physical self, and an astral self. When a mortal creature is wounded either physically or astrally, then the other half warps to match, and they take damage. Clearly supernatural creatures do not share this linkage and they can't be truely harmed unless both the physical and astral self are effected.

A run of the mill weapon has no astral signature, but a magically empowered one does.

01-27-2013, 08:18 PM	#1
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	+1 or better weapon to hit, why can magic weapons hit undead and demons that are imm I am curious about why a magic weapon is required to hit some supernatural monsters. Is magic imbued in the weapon that allows it to bypass supernatural immunity? Or is it more like silver affecting werewolves and if so why are undead and demons susceptible to magic weapons? And why does a weapon that has no enchantment do no damage and a weapon that has a +1 change do full damage? I am interested in the theories behind more that because it says so in a D&D book. Thanks.

01-27-2013, 08:22 PM	#2
David Johnston2 Join Date: Dec 2007	Re: +1 or better weapon to hit, why can magic weapons hit undead and demons that are Enchanting a weapon grants it a spiritual component. It exists on both planes.

01-27-2013, 08:32 PM	#3
Crakkerjakk "Gimme 18 minutes . . ." Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM	Re: +1 or better weapon to hit, why can magic weapons hit undead and demons that are I like David's answer. Many supernatural creatures in fiction exist on several planes, and unless you can reach them on both (all they exist on) attacks are less effective. __________________ My bare bones web page Semper Fi

01-27-2013, 09:00 PM	#4
b-dog Join Date: Nov 2006	Re: +1 or better weapon to hit, why can magic weapons hit undead and demons that are But why do GURPS magic items need Spirit Weapon to harm ghosts? Ghosts are thought to live on more than one plane and yet they are unaffected by magic weapons without Spirit Weapon on them. D&D magic weapons can affect insubstantial undead however.

01-27-2013, 09:05 PM	#6
Langy Join Date: May 2008 Location: CA	Re: +1 or better weapon to hit, why can magic weapons hit undead and demons that are Because GURPS is not D&D. Are there any statted GURPS monsters that can only be injured with 'magic weapons' in general? I didn't think there were. EDIT: Just looked through DFM1, Fantasy, and DF2 and couldn't find any that this'd apply to. Closest one was the as-Sharak, which can only be killed by supernatural damage, but I'm not sure magic weapons that don't inflict extra damage count. Last edited by Langy; 01-27-2013 at 09:11 PM.

01-28-2013, 01:56 AM	#7
Anthony Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA	Re: +1 or better weapon to hit, why can magic weapons hit undead and demons that are Because it's a D&D tradition. In GURPS, you usually require the Ghost Weapon enchantment to affect incorporeal creatures, not just any magic weapon, and other creatures aren't immune to normal weapons. If you want an excuse, other than a spiritual component, the other (often related) effect is that magic items might be able to resist spells that mundane objects cannot, though this is not generally the case in GURPS Magic. Last edited by Anthony; 01-28-2013 at 02:02 AM.

01-28-2013, 05:49 PM	#10
starslayer Join Date: Dec 2006	Re: +1 or better weapon to hit, why can magic weapons hit undead and demons that are I'm not sure what your seeking here- it is not a standard GURPS methodology to have creatures damaged by magic weapons when they would otherwise not be (so it would have to be integrated into the advantages of the creature; DR 'not vs magic' or insubstantiality 'not vs magic' are both good options) so asking 'why does GURPS do it this way' is kind of pointless. I kind of like the earthdawn approach to this sort of thing. Creatures have a physical self, and an astral self. When a mortal creature is wounded either physically or astrally, then the other half warps to match, and they take damage. Clearly supernatural creatures do not share this linkage and they can't be truely harmed unless both the physical and astral self are effected. A run of the mill weapon has no astral signature, but a magically empowered one does.