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Old 05-02-2012, 11:23 AM   #11
Voren
 
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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Originally Posted by nondescript handle View Post
Unless you'll have very exotic places like the smoke ring from Niven's Integral Trees, all environments with free fall will also be totally temperature controlled. On todays ISS basically everyone wears polo shirts.

I guess I can see full arm shirts for a space navy mess dress or stewards of interplanetary luxury liners, but I have a hard time envisioning multi layer clothing (e.g. a toga over form fitting clothing, a shirt under an uniform tunic) in such a context.

My guess would be that informal civilian dress in a shirt sleeve free fall environment would be something like (not too loose) shorts and T-shirt (worn inside shorts) and bare feet.
"Totally temperature controlled" is tricky, depending on what values you can achieve for these. A large spacecraft or station might give you a range of climates. Whatever you personally like in your own, private, quarters. Whatever the rookie has to put up with from the three senior guys in his bunk room. Whatever the captain likes on the bridge. Maybe it's chilly in engineering most of the time, but scorching when the main drive is powered up. Hot and muggy in hydroponics; cold and damp in the aquaculture bay. Maybe you just have the bad luck to get the workstation right under an HVAC fan. There's room for variety, especially on an old, cheap, or otherwise less than completely shiny ship.

Two other problems. First, as much as I'd like fashion to be simply designed around common sense, there are a lot of cultural factors involved.

"The one exception to this rule is aboard ship, where it is now (barely) acceptable to use a painted wig in lieu of a powdered one, following the disaster aboard the SS Carpathia en route to the Royal Law Society Convention of 2164." Duchess Jane's Protocol, 2170

Second, when lots of civilians start going into space, I suspect people are going to start demanding more variety in their clothing. Our current space programs and works of fiction mostly involve rather fit people who spend long periods training together. If you have liners full of paying passengers, you're going to get a mix of body types, ideas about fashion, modesty, personal space, and so on.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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[...] People like to layer things for the same reason I want people in my setting to layer: everyone wearing the same thing is boring. [...]
Good Point.

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[...] magnetic footwear is too useful in a freefall situation [...]
I was thinking of a spacer society (e.g. people born and raised in space), and I don't think they will try to emulate "walking" in free fall, but will "swim."

We see that evolution even now: Skylab had magnetic shoes. The ISS (as far as I know) doesn't.
They tether/fix things and people with velcro and bungie cords, but their shoes are regular non-magnetic sneakers. And they don't try to "walk."

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[...] and too many of the surfaces will be too rough or covered in metal shavings or something for it to be practical [...]
Free fall + metal shavings => protect your airways and eyes, not your feet.

That would be something every spacer would wear/have on their person: safety glasses and maybe even a small filter mask.

"Sorry mom, the drinking ballon leaked -- there are milk droplets in the kitchen!" - "OK, wear your glasses and mask until ventilation has cleared them out!"

And why would the surfaces of somebodies living room, or the mall, or the corridor to high school be so rough that they are a danger for bare feet?

A society of spacers would live in a space that is even tamer than the ISS (which is my real world touchstone for this kind of thing), not some industrial workshop. Some would work there and will wear work clothes while doing so, but the office drones, pupils, and stay-at-home-dads will not expect dangerously rough surfaces in their everyday lives.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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...
Second, when lots of civilians start going into space, I suspect people are going to start demanding more variety in their clothing. Our current space programs and works of fiction mostly involve rather fit people who spend long periods training together. If you have liners full of paying passengers, you're going to get a mix of body types, ideas about fashion, modesty, personal space, and so on.
There are so many people I do not want to see in skin tight anything, myself included.
Where's a space mumu when you need one?
I also would like draconian anti-perfume/cologne hygiene rules for my sanity and "their" survival.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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I was thinking of a spacer society (e.g. people born and raised in space), and I don't think they will try to emulate "walking" in free fall, but will "swim."

We see that evolution even now: Skylab had magnetic shoes. The ISS (as far as I know) doesn't.
They tether/fix things and people with velcro and bungie cords, but their shoes are regular non-magnetic sneakers. And they don't try to "walk."



Free fall + metal shavings => protect your airways and eyes, not your feet.

That would be something every spacer would wear/have on their person: safety glasses and maybe even a small filter mask.

"Sorry mom, the drinking ballon leaked -- there are milk droplets in the kitchen!" - "OK, wear your glasses and mask until ventilation has cleared them out!"

And why would the surfaces of somebodies living room, or the mall, or the corridor to high school be so rough that they are a danger for bare feet?

A society of spacers would live in a space that is even tamer than the ISS (which is my real world touchstone for this kind of thing), not some industrial workshop. Some would work there and will wear work clothes while doing so, but the office drones, pupils, and stay-at-home-dads will not expect dangerously rough surfaces in their everyday lives.
Emulating walking isn't important. Being able to anchor yourself is. People in freefall don't really "swim" once they can avoid being in the middle of a room with everything outside of arm reach. The motions are a lot more like jumping and climbing. That doesn't change the usefulness of anchors. I thought the reason magnetic boots weren't currently used was because of technical issues. Alternatively you can have velcro footies like in 2001.

I mention metal shavings because it is the reason why ISS crews wear goggles when entering new modules. Once air starts moving that particular hazard disappears but freefall means stuff is floating around in general and it's nice to be able to launch off of most surfaces even if there are milk droplets on it or whatever .

Surfaces aren't dangerously rough, they are just uncomfortable for people who don't walk on rough terrain on a regular basis and stuff like metal gratings saves mass. Surfaces with more friction are also useful for getting around which encourages roughness.

People could take off their shoes when they get into the office on earth but they don't both because shoes are expected to be worn in many situations and because it's easier to just wear something that can handle concrete instead of taking the shoes off. I can't see the custom disappearing in most stations when there are still uncomfortable surfaces to walk on. Most likely most people will stick to tunnels for movement and the odd room that is better in freefall but they will wear clothing that lets them visit most of the station.

Quite possibly freefall clothing will have influences from when people were expected to be able to help maintain the station. (which to some extent everyone still probably is. Not everyone needs to be an engineer but people who live in space need to be able to help with maintenance. It's psychologically useful even with larger populations.) I see early necessities on a space station and belter or space military culture as being influential in space even after a given tradition's usefulness is at an end.

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There are so many people I do not want to see in skin tight anything, myself included.
Where's a space mumu when you need one?
I also would like draconian anti-perfume/cologne hygiene rules for my sanity and "their" survival.
I think NASA inspects for stuff that produces odors. Confined and recycled air and perfume don't mix

Last edited by Sindri; 05-03-2012 at 01:45 AM.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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There are so many people I do not want to see in skin tight anything, myself included.
Most of those won't be physically fit enough to be astronauts until technology has advanced enough to make space flight routine so you don't have to worry.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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In freefall more specifically.

Clothing is a source of setting and character flavour so it pays to pay a certain amount of attention to it, not to mention it's use as a shorthand way of identifying societies. The guys wearing the pseudo-neo-medieval (or other historical era and location of choice.) clothing, are different from the guys wearing contemporary clothing (with perhaps some small modifications.), are different fromt the guys wearing just terrible space clothes(let's try to avoid that.), are different from the guys wearing togas.

Unfortunately the fact is that pretty much all of our clothing has been designed for an environment where things fall down. In freefall your stylish long coat fails to function at best and constantly gets in the worst possible place at worst while dresses, skirts, kilts, and togas are generally strictly decorative requiring an underlayer that functions as actual clothing. Even other clothing doesn't function well. Jackets especially but loose items in general don't lie properly and hats and things placed in pockets escape easier.

Options
There is form fitting clothing with both the skin-tight clothes (coming in black, white, and shiny) with a long history in SF and practical advantages besides and looser clothing based on fatigues or overalls.

Items that won't be troublesome but also won't actually function as covering by themeselves in the freefall environment can be overlaid on top.

Even if all anyone wore was form fitting interesting variations could be achieved through layering and colours

Clothing could possibly be induced to fall to a given face of a room with magnetics which would allow much the same chocies of clothing as here on earth, though given the maneuverability offered by freefall clothing won't always stay where it should relative to the wearer.

Clothing could be tied so that while it has a degree of freedom it can't totally fly off and cause trouble.

Clothing can also vary based on exposure of skin but that's pretty much just a modifier of the other options.

Clothing can also vary based on exposure of skin but that's pretty much just a modifier of the other options. Also I'm not sure if people would want to expose skin with metal shavings floating around and possibly use of metal gratings to save mass combined with the difficulty of people new to freefall not bumping into things constantly.

Comments? Have I missed anything or am I mistaken somewhere? How do people dress in your freefall? Also what are some small details like like the lapels or collars in Babylon 5 that can reinforce that, hey, this takes place in the future?
B5 clothing was splendid; even the humans wore good looking uniforms. However it was clearly not made for zero-g.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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Most of those won't be physically fit enough to be astronauts until technology has advanced enough to make space flight routine so you don't have to worry.
The context of the thread pretty much involves technology having advanced enough for space flight to be routine.

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B5 clothing was splendid; even the humans wore good looking uniforms. However it was clearly not made for zero-g.
Babylon 5 was chosen as an example of futuristic fashion trends not clothing in freefall. I put a fair amount of emphasis on the effects of freefall on clothes because that's what made me think to start the thread but I'm also interested in futuristic clothing in general and what subtle differences people have come up with in their games and such.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

I gave everybody jumpsuits in my webcomic. Easier to draw.

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Old 05-02-2012, 04:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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Babylon 5 was chosen as an example of futuristic fashion trends not clothing in freefall. I put a fair amount of emphasis on the effects of freefall on clothes because that's what made me think to start the thread but I'm also interested in futuristic clothing in general and what subtle differences people have come up with in their games and such.
I use computers a lot. This allows an incredible amount of art and heraldry-and just imagine how much information you could carry.
I don't think much about the null-grav aspect because artificial gravity is routine in most ships.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Clothing in Spaaaaaaace!

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I don't think much about the null-grav aspect because artificial gravity is routine in most ships.
I've tried to steer clear of artificial gravity in my SF settings, even the ones that aren't particularly hard science. Basically, I feel artificial gravity is a cop out, and since I don't have to worry about special effects budgets in my RPGs, I can get as spacey as I want.
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