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Old 07-28-2020, 08:22 AM   #1
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

PU2p20 talks about types of UB perks, which either involve being able to use advantageous rules (Extra Option) or being able to ignore disadvantageous rules.

B173 forbids double-defaulting: "A skill canít default to another skill
known only by default."

Whether this is viewed as EO introducing an advantageous "can double default" policy or Rules Exemption excluding a disadvantageous "can't double default" policy is probably just a matter of perspective and I don't know if it matters what you would classify this as.

I've never actually seen a proposal to ignore this. Would a perk be too cheap to apply this to ALL skills? If so, what lesser number is fair?

The idea of this being it would give you limited ability in a certain amount of skills which only default to other skills and not to attributes, without requiring a point in the skills they default to.

Examples might be:

1) for casting with Ritual Magery, you don't need a point in Thaumatology to get a default in paths, instead you can apply the -6 default to the IQ-7 default in thaumatology to enjoy an IQ-13 default in the paths

2) B179 for enjoying a default in Autohypnosis you don't need Meditation, you just apply the -4 penalty to B207's Will-6 default to enjoy Autohypnosis at Will-10.

3) B209 for Metallurgy you don't need a point in Chemistry, just apply the -5 penalty to the B183 default of IQ-6 so you can do Metallurgy at IQ-11.

These penalties might also be lesser if someone has various forms of Dabbler.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:11 AM   #2
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

Considering the tremendous penalties involved, this barely seems worthwhile even at the scope of unlocking all defaults-from-defaults.

(Obviously, it would make no sense at all at the minimum scope of one point for one skill, since spending a point in either the desired skill or the skill it defaults to would be much better. I don't think there are enough things with a skill default but no attribute default to make it useful to invent an intermediate scope.)
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:04 AM   #3
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

I would allow it only per default chain. So, you could take DD (Broadsword>Shortsword>Smallsword), allowing you to default Shortsword at -2 and, from Shortsword-2, defaulting to Smallsword at -6. This is equivalent to just dumping 1 CP into the intermediate skill.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:39 AM   #4
TGLS
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

Well, assuming crazy high default from skills, it makes a really weird character concept. For example if you buy this:
Mathematics/TL8 (Statistics) IQ/H - IQ+20 30 [84]

You also get:
Accounting IQ/H - IQ+15 25
Administration IQ/A - IQ+2 12
Economics IQ/H - IQ+8 18
Finance IQ/H - IQ+11 21
Geography/TL8 (Political) IQ/H - IQ+4 14
Market Analysis IQ/H - IQ+3 13
Merchant IQ/A - IQ+5 15
Propaganda/TL8 IQ/A - IQ+0 10
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:51 AM   #5
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
This is equivalent to just dumping 1 CP into the intermediate skill.
In which case, no point in making a Quirk, right? No need for a Perk to do something you can already do for a point.

I am a bit leery of making it broad, because that just encourages the Johnny One-Stat characters. (Though there are plenty of characters that seem to manage to know all about every branch of science and engineering while still at least keeping up with the rest of the adventurers, or even the occasional brainiac or literal brain-in-a-jar, those tend to make uninteresting PCs, often striking me mostly as an exercise in breaking the system.)
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:17 PM   #6
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

IQ 20, Per 16, Will 16, and Science!-25 is a perfectly legal build in a cinematic campaign. Yes, it costs 244 CP, but you end up with an individual who excels in every scientific skill.

Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 07-28-2020 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:21 PM   #7
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

"Legal" wasn't the point.
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:48 PM   #8
Ejidoth
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

Defaulting off of other defaults feels clunky and awkward enough that my normal reaction would be to ask the player to explain their character concept without referring to GURPS system terms, and then see if we can find an alternate way to build it that fits better with the system. A wildcard skill or a modular ability or something, maybe.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:12 PM   #9
pawsplay
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

I wouldn't do it just because it's complicated. And possibly circular.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:15 AM   #10
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: how broad should an Unusual Background: Extra Option : Double Defaulter perk be?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawsplay View Post
I wouldn't do it just because it's complicated. And possibly circular.
Circular is no problem - with large penalties at each step (with, what, one exception?), a circular default is always going to be worse than what you had before following the cycle.
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